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Brace

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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:50 pm

That's missing the point a bit...
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Taz

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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:12 pm

Canada has a Socialist party. :U
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:14 pm

Thlayli wrote:
I hate it when people identify themselves as something like Communist when they live in a Democracy. You have no choice. You live in a democracy, so you are a democrat. You can't do SHIT.
There's actually a Communist Party Of America, that receives some 100,000 popular votes every election. The candidate this year is actually really damn smart and I wouldn't mind having him as a president.

But he'll never win.

....
...Because he's black.
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Wolf-Bone

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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:57 pm

Thlayli wrote:
I hate it when people identify themselves as something like Communist when they live in a Democracy. You have no choice. You live in a democracy, so you are a democrat. You can't do SHIT.

Uh, all these countries that call themselves democratic (none of them really call themselves democracies, and there's an important distinction) have very little democracy of any substance, and that actually has a lot to do with why someone who would otherwise be for democracy would call themselves something else. The idea goes, if democracy was really good and/or realistic, we would probably already be that, so what idea hasn't really been tested yet? Using the Communism example, it's a pretty easy cop out to say it's never been tested because everyone that tried became some form of Fascism instead.

Riv wrote:
greg-the-fox wrote:
Under Bush we felt united

We did?

...

I don't remember that happening. I remember a lot of pissed off people.

Unless you mean we were all pissed at Bush together. I might believe that.

I remember a lot of us were being united against our will in that the "loony" "fringe" was anyone with even the slightest liberal sensibilities, to hear Fox and the blogosphere tell it. So we were all on the fringe despite being pretty fucking mainstream for the most part. But the truth is a lot of people supported Bush who really shouldn't have, even according to their own views, and while it included some people who would otherwise be considered liberal, it was mostly conservatives who could rationalize the abuse and betrayal of their own ideology to no end; something it was theorized for a time was something unique to conservatives. The video is making the case that it's not, and I have to agree.

But, I think I'd support Obama just because he actually is just about the best choice, even though he really shouldn't be. When I see people who I knew for years to be what those same hard-right pundits were calling "bleeding heart liberal" (which, btw, did include me) calling me too conservative, not open-minded enough, "typical small-town mentality", etc, only to turn around and say they believe the conspiracy theories, Donald Trump or Ron Paul should be president, etc. Yeah, I think I'm starting to see things in a new light. I am conservative, about my liberalism because I'm unflinchingly protective of the rights of others. The "true" Liberals inevitably become right-wingers in spite of themselves, because they're so open minded that they're open-minded to the same toxic bullshit that creates the movements they're ostensibly against.

Brace wrote:
My own intuition actually leads me towards Imperialism as well.

By all means, enlighten us...
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Brace

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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:31 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
By all means, enlighten us...

I'm a hopelessly elitist woman of action who believes her core values are sacrosanct. I'm also willing to inflict harm if I think it will solve a larger problem. Like Dr. House. Praxis is more important than theory to me. Probably the only reason I'm not on an FBI wanted list is because I lack the resources necessary to put my views into practice on a scale that can actually gather attention.
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:42 pm

Brace wrote:
I'm a hopelessly elitist woman of action who believes her core values are sacrosanct. I'm also willing to inflict harm if I think it will solve a larger problem. Like Dr. House. Praxis is more important than theory to me. Probably the only reason I'm not on an FBI wanted list is because I lack the resources necessary to put my views into practice on a scale that can actually gather attention.

I don't get how one can be an elitist when they are so far removed from the elite, both in social standing and worldview that they might as well belong to a different species. And frankly, to be willing to inflict harm to protect one's beliefs, freedoms or to solve a larger problem is just reality. But Imperialism seems to be more about doing that really just for its own sake, and for the sake of power, even at the expense of/without regard to reality than really solving a problem, aside from not having enough power, or to protect anything, except obviously power.

You said yourself you saw the inherent problems and spelled them out. Imperialists never seem to, or if they do, they just don't tell anyone because they're insane and/or evil.

A quote attributed to Karl Rove says some pretty scary shit about what goes on in the mind of someone like him, about how the rest of us live in the "reality-based community", which they see as irrelevant because they can literally reshape the very core of reality according to their whims.

Basically I don't think things like Imperialism or Totalitarianism are philosophies as much as pathologies. You might have one, but I don't think it's quite like drugs where one is a "gateway" to another, needing only to stimulate the right "receptors" to make someone a full-blown junkie after a while. Some just don't have "receptors" than can be stimulated. They immediately reject an idea because it's incompatible with everything they are.
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blackfuredfox
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:22 pm

Brace wrote:
blackfuredfox wrote:
I've read all sorts of pages on political positions, and the one I've seen that is closest to my views is Imperialism. Wtf mate?

My own intuition actually leads me towards Imperialism as well. The two problems of the position though are:

1. It requires an untenable investment of resources. Every Imperialistic empire has eventually stretched itself too thin and collapsed in some sense or another (even Britain).
2. Trying to centrally manage the problems of other cultures from a distance is ineffective and tends to actually exacerbate and create problems.

Plus, when you pull out (which you inevitably have to, due to #1), you leave a huge power vacuum and take away all of the structure that was holding things together.
I think if done the right way, an empire could actually succeed. Of course doing it the right way would be hard to do. A world wide empire I do think would be impossible. The major problem I've seen with most empires is that its always ruled by one person for decades. Like with Britain, I think that if innstead of a monarch they had an elected leader that they could have not only held onto India, and their African colonies, but that the American colonies would have also been held onto. Same with the Roman Empire, they collapsed under an Emperor who was ruler for life. One reason I believe that Roman Catholicism has lasted, is because when a pope is chosen, most often they're quiet old and their rule only lasts a short time. That's why I think the US will last for thousands of years, unless of a catastrophic event is because if a president does something we don't like, we can elect another to change it, so on and so forth. It makes things go slower while a monarch can keep things the same or move things to the far end of the spectrum in their decades as ruler. It'd be hard, but an imperial republic could work.
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Lunar
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:45 am

Won't have any time this weekend, and I have plans on Monday. I'm gonna stay up all night and finish this blanket. allthe
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Riv
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:51 am

I've been managing my time so poorly this past week... And I feel self-loathing and disgust when I think about doing things I like... Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.
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Lunar
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:48 am

Fuck you, brain. Let me sleep when it's important.
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Yuzani

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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:55 am

Ugh... Had one too many slices of cake... Oral hygenist going to have a real ball with me next time I see her :/
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Lunar
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:58 am

Yuzani wrote:
Ugh... Had one too many slices of cake... Oral hygenist going to have a real ball with me next time I see her :/
At least you get to go to one. I lost my dental insurance after high school. My teeth aren't bad or anything, but I need a checkup. Like, very soon. Luckily Meijer's Union kicks Kroger's ass, and they offer dental insurance to all their employees.
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:02 pm

lunar_helix wrote:
Yuzani wrote:
Ugh... Had one too many slices of cake... Oral hygenist going to have a real ball with me next time I see her :/
At least you get to go to one. I lost my dental insurance after high school. My teeth aren't bad or anything, but I need a checkup. Like, very soon. Luckily Meijer's Union kicks Kroger's ass, and they offer dental insurance to all their employees.

Even with insurance, the $75 copay is going to hurt my wallet Sad
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Lunar
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:03 pm

$75, who has that kind of money? Not a single fuck wa
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:04 pm

What this "insurance" you speak of, is it in anyway related to the mythical healthcare Ive only heard about?
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:05 pm

I've got rent to pay! $75 is a big chunk of my budge Sad
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Brace

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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:07 pm

I lost $800. Sell something and get over it, lol.
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Lunar
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:10 pm

I should probably be getting dressed for this interview, shouldn't I? Not a single fuck wa
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:12 pm

show up naked and hope it's a horny older guy there.
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:32 pm

Yuzani wrote:
show up naked and hope it's a horny older guy there.

How about no?
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Lunar
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:38 pm

BITCH YOU FUCKING KNOW I HATE FRIED CHICKEN. I'VE FUCKING TOLD YOU SO AT LEAST NINE GODDAMN TIMES.

Christ, the people I put up with.
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:13 am

Im getting sick
My elbow, wrist and everything inbetween are aching a lot lately

And with the ever approaching holiday, I can feel my mood deteriorating ever so slowly
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Lunar
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Y'know what, I don't even feel bad anymore for skipping my mom's birthday to go see Van Halen. Fuck her, she can spend her birthday on her own for all I care. I'm not gonna have second thoughts about my plans to satisfy some bitch who calls me the scum of the earth and flips her shit if I don't hand over the change from her $20 RIGHT FUCKING NOW, even though it's in the pocket of my blouse on the other side of the room and I JUST FUCKING WOKE UP. The same $20 that she promised earlier she'd pay me back for the pizza I bought for my sister.
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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:51 pm

lunar_helix wrote:
Y'know what, I don't even feel bad anymore for skipping my mom's birthday to go see Van Halen. Fuck her, she can spend her birthday on her own for all I care. I'm not gonna have second thoughts about my plans to satisfy some bitch who calls me the scum of the earth and flips her shit if I don't hand over the change from her $20 RIGHT FUCKING NOW, even though it's in the pocket of my blouse on the other side of the room and I JUST FUCKING WOKE UP. The same $20 that she promised earlier she'd pay me back for the pizza I bought for my sister.
She needs to get laid, let's go get your mom a hooker
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Brace

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PostSubject: Re: BAWW thread 2   Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:15 pm

I'm gradually becoming a psychotic and dysfunctional wreck. I mean, it was there before, but it's just recently started to come out. I'm losing my ability to hold together and put on a nice face to get through the day.
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