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 I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!

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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


Posts : 3290
Join date : 2011-10-20
Age : 40

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PostSubject: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Um, what was I going to write here.... Oh, right, the Mass Effect shitstorm. Okay, it's kinda stupid for me to even have an opinion, never having played any of the games (though I've been meaning to) but it's hard not to when it's all over the gaming sites I browse, here on Facebook, discussion forums, and even Old Media has something to say about it.

From what I understand, some are upset about the ending being "grim" as opposed to "sappy", while others don't care about that as much as the execution. I can't comment on the latter charge, but as to the former, if it's true that the main character has to make a heroic self-sacrifice to save the world, uh, that IS a sappy ending if it even remotely resembles such endings in most works that end on that note. The crucial question is, is said sacrifice REALLY necessary, does the character have ANY believable, coherent reason for it? Is there no way it could've reasonably been prevented with just a touch of foresight?

I ask this because that was why many, including me, thought Fallout 3's ending was stupid, sappy, and stupidly sappy, just utterly forced. New Vegas had much better endings, appropriately pessimistic for the setting with little silver linings here and there if you worked for them. If that's Mass Effect pretty much, seriously, get the fuck over it. You were already playing in a pretty bleak, cynical world, unlike the one you already inhabit, I'm sure. What did you expect?
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MiloTime

MiloTime


Humor : George Michael Bluth
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Join date : 2011-10-22
Age : 33
Location : Arizona

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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 4:24 pm

I'm getting so tired of those who complain that the ending wasn't good enough, or that there were still plot holes. what pisses me off is that the community ACTUALLY managed to convince the game director to change the ending in a future update or some shit.

I mean seriously, you bitch that you weren't satisfied that the ending wasn't realistic or logical enough, yet you're getting someone to ALTER it for you.... how is that realistic? I'd just be thinking about the fact that this wasn't originally what happened while I'm playing through the ending.

I guess people haven't taken into account what bioware told everybody before the game came out. "keep your ME3 save files." which means they're continuing the story in SOME sense at least.

...*cough*
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Riv
Literally the fucking worst
Riv


Posts : 7308
Join date : 2011-10-17
Age : 34

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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 4:30 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
I ask this because that was why many, including me, thought Fallout 3's ending was stupid, sappy, and stupidly sappy, just utterly forced.

It was pretty dumb.

"Hey, if it's cool with you guys, I'm going to mount the control panel onto the pipe that most of the radiation goes through. We could put it anywhere in this building, and with thirty feet of wire, we could put it outside the protective barrier, but I really feel that it's more feng-shui to put it in there. Also, only I know the code, nobody else. If my son asks, tell him it was his mother's favorite bible verse. Hopefully, he remembers one specific thing I told him when he was a toddler."
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Daisy The Bunny

Daisy The Bunny


Humor : Decompression sickness
Posts : 1701
Join date : 2011-10-19
Age : 30
Location : Lancashire, England

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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 5:05 pm

As a long time Mass Effect fan, my main issue with the ending is the lack of impact your choices actually make. Just different coloured explosions. That and it was just unsatisfying.

Mass Effect relays destroyed. Now there's the main fleet and more of every species in the galaxy trapped in the Sol system, and everyone else in the system they were in at the time, probably causing the latter to starve to death. That will cause damn near as much destruction and extinction as the Reapers would anyway. Also why do the Mass Relays explode anyway? "They just do."

I would write this off as "Well, the point they were trying to make is that the cost of survival is sometimes too high to be worth it," but they built up Shepard as the ultimate savior of the galaxy the whole game, making you really feel like you're gonna win the ultimate war. It doesn't feel much like a victory.
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MiloTime

MiloTime


Humor : George Michael Bluth
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Age : 33
Location : Arizona

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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Thlayli wrote:
As a long time Mass Effect fan, my main issue with the ending is the lack of impact your choices actually make. Just different coloured explosions. That and it was just unsatisfying.

Mass Effect relays destroyed. Now there's the main fleet and more of every species in the galaxy trapped in the Sol system, and everyone else in the system they were in at the time, probably causing the latter to starve to death. That will cause damn near as much destruction and extinction as the Reapers would anyway. Also why do the Mass Relays explode anyway? "They just do."

I would write this off as "Well, the point they were trying to make is that the cost of survival is sometimes too high to be worth it," but they built up Shepard as the ultimate savior of the galaxy the whole game, making you really feel like you're gonna win the ultimate war. It doesn't feel much like a victory.

when I feel like a game like this is too un-finished, I just know they're going to do something big with it in the future.

I dunno, as unsatisfied as I'll probably feel when I beat ME3, I just know there's more to it.
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Daisy The Bunny

Daisy The Bunny


Humor : Decompression sickness
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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 5:13 pm

It definitely feels final. Oh of course they'll shove the proverbial cock of DLC down your throat but that'll be it. More multiplayer maps would be cool.
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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 5:53 pm

MyLittleRivvy wrote:
Wolf-Bone wrote:
I ask this because that was why many, including me, thought Fallout 3's ending was stupid, sappy, and stupidly sappy, just utterly forced.

It was pretty dumb.

"Hey, if it's cool with you guys, I'm going to mount the control panel onto the pipe that most of the radiation goes through. We could put it anywhere in this building, and with thirty feet of wire, we could put it outside the protective barrier, but I really feel that it's more feng-shui to put it in there. Also, only I know the code, nobody else. If my son asks, tell him it was his mother's favorite bible verse. Hopefully, he remembers one specific thing I told him when he was a toddler."

Oh, nah I actually didn't really take issue with that. I think I'm just accustomed to those kinds of plot devices, because they and the kinds of characters who set them up, like James, are necessary for the main character to act. James kinda has to be the Sacrificial Lion (and not just because he's voiced by Aslan) in order for 1) your character to be inspired to avenge his death and bring down the Enclave in the process even if you could care less about the Brotherhood's goals, or even Project Purity. They need to put at least a few good reasons for you to follow the path you're supposed to and just hope at least one of them moves you on a personal level. 2) It definitely makes your earlier conversations with him take on a new light, especially if you told him off.

No, what I mean is the way they made certain themes and characters' personalities completely fucking meaningless by forcing the Spock ending on you, or forcing you to force it on someone else. I mean you got Fawkes and his bullshit about not denying your destiny, when you denied his destiny to stay in a cramped cell, he denied your destiny not to retrieve the GECK, and then denied the Enclave's destiny to fight you alone! But I think even worse is Charon since not being able to have him enter the code (even as a ghoul, he probably wouldn't survive the heat) undermines the whole point his character makes by existing, and the point your character can make either by being the kind of altruistic boss he deserves or being even worse than his previous employer.

The robot... You know, Mister Gutsies are just assholes. That's the end of it.

But really, they were planning to extend the game from the outset, that much is obvious now. I was always more frustrated at there being this huge game with loads to do, and only 20 levels worth of it before you might as well wrap it up. I'm not sure if that's the gameplan with Mass Effect but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Riv
Literally the fucking worst
Riv


Posts : 7308
Join date : 2011-10-17
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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 6:04 pm

I don't think Charon would die, in the GOTY Edition, you slip into a coma but you don't die, and ghouls are (according to the loading screen tips) healed by radiation.

And Mr. Gutsies are assholes. They can apparently produce an infinite amount of clean water from thin air, and yet, they do nothing to help all the irradiated dehydrated people of the wastes.
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Daisy The Bunny

Daisy The Bunny


Humor : Decompression sickness
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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 6:31 pm

I hate how the game ending to Fallout 3 makes me out to be evil if I send Fawkes in there to do it. Umm... Does overcoming the problem of one of us having to die make me the antichrist or something?
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Riv
Literally the fucking worst
Riv


Posts : 7308
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I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 6:36 pm

Thlayli wrote:
I hate how the game ending to Fallout 3 makes me out to be evil if I send Fawkes in there to do it. Umm... Does overcoming the problem of one of us having to die make me the antichrist or something?

Well, the developers hate you for ruining their poetic ending with your damn logic.
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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitimeFri Mar 23, 2012 6:38 pm

MyLittleRivvy wrote:
I don't think Charon would die, in the GOTY Edition, you slip into a coma but you don't die, and ghouls are (according to the loading screen tips) healed by radiation.

And Mr. Gutsies are assholes. They can apparently produce an infinite amount of clean water from thin air, and yet, they do nothing to help all the irradiated dehydrated people of the wastes.

I read somewhere, probably on TVTropes but possibly the Fallout wiki, it's not the radcount that's the kiss of death from the purifier but the sheer energy/heat, which makes sense since you can make it to Vault 87's front door if you spam Radaway. It's difficult but not impossible. I think the purifier is a similar deal and they had to come up with a reason you or whoever else activates it is killed/knocked out if the radiation isn't believable enough for some people. It's pretty contrived by these plot points often are.

The issue I have with Charon's abrupt change of character is he's essentially the archetypical, loyal-to-a-fault employee/servant, in the over-the-top (though smartly understated within the game) model the Libertarian Utopian ideal would require to work on any level. And then, he isn't, and it doesn't, much in the same way I think anyone with a brain realizes would play out in real life, eventually. But right then? That particular character, with you as the particular boss, right when it's most convenient for forcing one of the two wholesome, polished, too-good-to-be-true saviors of humanity in human form to don the crown of thorns and mount the cross? Yeah, exactly, because they were more concerned with making that kind of ending than one where the themes the game's world and characters embody actually reflect in the conclusion one way or the other.

You mostly don't really get Charon until you get the way people who envision a world full of Charons think, which you can sort of get a crash course on by exploring all of Ahzrukhal's dialogue options, though certain personality quirks and ways of phrasing things do point to Charon's underlying mindset. He doesn't say much, but he does explain the method to his madness, albeit in an exceptionally laconic fashion that actually comes across as a mockery of a character who I think was supposed to taken a lot more seriously than most seem to. They really should've given him a bit more to say, but I think when he repeatedly demands you "talk... to... Ahzrukhal", the point is Ahzrukhal will talk for him, which works in that situation but not for the whole game.
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PostSubject: Re: I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet!   I think you know what this is about. I'm pissed, and I'm telling the internet! Icon_minitime

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