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Kaizy
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:16 pm

Tank Abuse wrote:
I think Zara's main beef with you is that you took a joke he said to heart and went full ape shit as a response.
Yes I know what instance youre talking about. I saw what looked like instigating shit, and I just said to shut up, as is my usual way of warning people who I think are arguing. I might have mistook the joke for an argument, but at the same time he mistook my own joke for an abuse of power.

Tank Abuse wrote:
My main beef with you is that a week-long ban for one damn post of low-caliber is just retarded. There have been intense spats on this board that did not result in anyone getting banned:

When me and Wolf-Bone first started arguing in the GTWT no one came to shut that party down except Lucy.

And he only bitched.

When me and him flooded the joint with dumbass PMs no one came to shut that party down except Lucy, with Riv creeping up from the sidelines and complaining.

Again, mere bitching.
I dont remember those incidents, and I even so, I dont think I can moderate PMs
But no one had sent me a PM saying "hey, so-and-so is harassing me through PM, can you please tell them to stop", which is what Ive told you all to do if these incidents of harassment come up, but I have never once had a message in my inbox that says that. Ever. If you people really have problems like that with people, then why ignore my offer to help every time? If youre posting your complaints in threads, thats not a good effort because I cant read through every single post on the forum looking for someone asking for help. If you send me a direct message I WILL HANDLE IT. I just want that to be known now. IF YOU ARE BEING HARASSED BY ANOTHER MEMBER AND THEY WONT STOP, SEND ME A PM AND I WILL TAKE CARE OF IT. DO NOT SIT BY IDLY OR POST IN THREADS HOPING IM GONNA STUMBLE ACROSS THE POST AND STOP IT.

Tank Abuse wrote:
I mean honestly me and Wolf-Bone should have been banned a long time ago if you think about it.

It took you all 3 million years to ban that Foxy kid and he was probably the king of talking shit from what I've heard and read.

Psycho, although I loved him to bits, took a long-ass time to be banned as well when it was obvious he was shit-posting all over the place.
Look, were pretty lenient on bans for a reason. This is a small forum of friends. We dont want to just ban everyone who bends the rules a bit, and we give a lot of second chances. Yes, we probably shouldnt give this many second chances, but for me, I really dont want to ban anyone from the forum for good. I like this forum and I like the people here and I dont want anyone getting booted off of it. I was very hesitant to ban Foxy and gave him a lot of second chances because Im a little too nice in that department, its really not that hard to get me to be lenient.

I mean if you guys want, I could go full on strict and uphold those rules with an iron fist, but you people would DEFINITELY be calling me Hitler because youd be banned if I saw so much as a little quarrel. Plus I dont like being overly strict, Im a pretty laid back person. If you guys dont want me to give as many second chances anymore, let me know, but until you do, Im going to be fairly lenient with bans and rules.

Tank Abuse wrote:
I did.

In the chat box a few weeks ago when Wolf-Bone was extremely depressed and was thinking about offing himself. I called him out on it and dared him to do it like I didn't give a shit whether he did it or not.

It was fucked up and I'm sorry for it, but I received no big-kid timeout as punishment.

I dont use the chat box, so I was never aware of that. Had I known, you probably would have been banned almost immediately.

I try to be lenient with bans, but the things that I will not give any second chances for is telling someone to go through with a suicide, or serious harassment/verbal insults. I have no patience for that stuff and sometimes I will fly off the handle when I see it. I can understand why it might seem like I get a little extreme in those situations, but Ive stated countless times that I have no patience for that stuff. Im sorry if that seems like an abuse of power or something, but I will not tolerate calling out someones flaws to use against them in harassment and I will not tolerate encouragements of suicide.

Say what you want about me or how I choose to react but those are two things I will not be changing my policy on. You do either one, its an immediate ban, the length of which is subject to the severity of the situation.

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:27 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Y'know, I'm not cool with ButterflyGoddess calling me Wolfy and I ain't cool with you doing it either. We're not that close. Sorry, it's nothing personal. But anyway, Brace wasn't talking about suicide. I wasn't encouraging anyone to encourage her to commit suicide. She was talking about self-castration. Believe it or not, that actually worried me more than her past talk of suicide. Because she sounded totally serious and convinced this wouldn't end in disaster and tragedy.

People cope with shit in different ways, and I try to cope by pointing out, hey guys, this fucked up shit is about to go down, isn't it hilarious? Of course it isn't. For Christ's sake, I want someone to notice and get her some help. I don't know how to do that. All I've ever tried to do on this forum is be there for people. I know they're not capable of appreciating it or even seeing it for what it is, but I don't seem to have it in my grasp to wash my hands of them entirely. Maybe if I did I'd be a lot better off.

I may have screwed up in what I was trying to do, but I wasn't posting the utter, base vitriol that The Fur did towards ButterflyGoddess, which I think most of you probably think I put him up to. That's not true. He was drunk at the time (but then when isn't he...) and was telling me he was going to post that. I said "whatever dude, I don't agree with it, but I can't stop you. It's on you, not on me" which was naive because of course people were going to think like I'm responsible for him just because I'm the one who told him about this place. Not unlike Foxy Boy, whom you all associate with me despite us being worlds apart.

The Fur was coming from a good place in one sense, because he knew I was really hurt over what happened and wanted to show he had my back, but he was also coming from a place of anger and hate. Me, I was just coming from my usual mix of despair and cynicism. I didn't think any of you would believe I'm capable of giving a damn about another person but I'm okay with that. I'm not okay with letting people be in the dark about some serious problems people have. Problems that need to be addressed for their own good.

Tell yourself I'm not doing it because I care. I'm doing it out of "rational self-interest". Whatever.

Bottom line, I get banned for a week initially because you think I'm this angry, hateful person who wishes violent, self-inflicted agony and death on people. Another guy gets 48 hours because he practically does but doesn't have this "image" associated with him like I do. Look, I hung up my cigar, polyester coat and fake internet psychologist PhD a while back, but I don't need to analyze this situation too hard to see that's basically what it is.
Sorry, had no idea you didnt want me calling you Wolfy. Ill stop.

See, from the sound of this, I was somehow either supposed to know all of this before that post, or I was supposed to analyze that post so deeply that all of this became clear...both of which werent going to happen. I saw a post that looked like an encouragement for someone to kill themselves. There was none of this clarification, there was no excess post that explained the situation, just one short post. Its like you expected me to see that and either just close the thread and do nothing about it or just shake my head and say "oh that silly Wolf-bone". Had I just closed it and done nothing, that would show way too much leniency for that kind of stuff and would only further that Im some sort of terrible admin. Had I just ignored it as Wolf-bone being Wolf-bone, it would again show too much leniency and the thread would have remained open for all to post and it would have probably turned into a shitstorm and thus still would have made me look like a terrible admin. So I set a week long ban, and what happens?...Im considered a terrible admin for setting a ban that was too long for the offense. So really nothing I would have done there was going to appeal to my image, but at least I fucking tried.

And hell, I was lenient again and allowed you to just give Brace an apology in return for a shortened sentence.

And yet Im still a shit admin

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:34 pm

It seems we live in two completely fucking different worlds. I wasn't going to go cry to you guys about what Tank said because, for one, I was suicidal at the time, and it's sorta what people do when they don't know if you are or just fishing for sympathy. It doesn't even really occur to me to want to ban someone for doing what damn near anyone would do in a similar situation. It also doesn't occur to me that I'm entitled to have a better image than what I have, even if I think it's a grossly inaccurate perception people have of me. Your entire post there has been about worrying about what others would think of you if you did something, didn't do something, or did too much or too little and concluding you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. So we manage to feel pretty similarly about our place on this forum despite being like night and day in our actual positions and probably our personalities. Just chew on that for a while...
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:40 pm

Im just going back to doing what I do

Everyones free to interpret my actions how they want but Im going to do what Ive been doing and what I think is the right course of actions in situations

My inbox is always open, feel free to take my offer still and ask for any assistance

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:50 pm

Okay, you do that. And if shit gets too bad, I guess the market will sort it out...
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:01 pm

Riv wrote:
Tank Abuse wrote:
I did.

In the chat box a few weeks ago when Wolf-Bone was extremely depressed and was thinking about offing himself. I called him out on it and dared him to do it like I didn't give a shit whether he did it or not.

It was fucked up and I'm sorry for it, but I received no big-kid timeout as punishment.


I don't know about Kaizy, but I don't ever read the chatbox. I never see anyone using it, so it doesn't even occur to me to read the history, and even if I did, it only goes back so far. We can't punish you for things we aren't even aware of.

People used to use it all the time before we all moved to Tinychat, and then to Greg's Skype group.

People also could've told one of you two what happened, but I guess that falls on the shoulders of the regular users and not the mods or admins.

Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it didn't happen, which, might I add, is a shitty excuse considering you created this forum, and you're also the first admin that was put in place because of that; you should probably do a better job of watching over your castle. Riv, you never even touched the chat box now that I think about it (maybe you were in there once), and Kaizy was in there twice maybe.


Actually I'd go as far as to say that chatbox was where a good 70 percent of the "bullshit" went down.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:05 pm

Kaizy wrote:
Tank Abuse wrote:
I think Zara's main beef with you is that you took a joke he said to heart and went full ape shit as a response.
Yes I know what instance youre talking about. I saw what looked like instigating shit, and I just said to shut up, as is my usual way of warning people who I think are arguing. I might have mistook the joke for an argument, but at the same time he mistook my own joke for an abuse of power.

Tank Abuse wrote:
My main beef with you is that a week-long ban for one damn post of low-caliber is just retarded. There have been intense spats on this board that did not result in anyone getting banned:

When me and Wolf-Bone first started arguing in the GTWT no one came to shut that party down except Lucy.

And he only bitched.

When me and him flooded the joint with dumbass PMs no one came to shut that party down except Lucy, with Riv creeping up from the sidelines and complaining.

Again, mere bitching.
I dont remember those incidents, and I even so, I dont think I can moderate PMs
But no one had sent me a PM saying "hey, so-and-so is harassing me through PM, can you please tell them to stop", which is what Ive told you all to do if these incidents of harassment come up, but I have never once had a message in my inbox that says that. Ever. If you people really have problems like that with people, then why ignore my offer to help every time? If youre posting your complaints in threads, thats not a good effort because I cant read through every single post on the forum looking for someone asking for help. If you send me a direct message I WILL HANDLE IT. I just want that to be known now. IF YOU ARE BEING HARASSED BY ANOTHER MEMBER AND THEY WONT STOP, SEND ME A PM AND I WILL TAKE CARE OF IT. DO NOT SIT BY IDLY OR POST IN THREADS HOPING IM GONNA STUMBLE ACROSS THE POST AND STOP IT.

Tank Abuse wrote:
I mean honestly me and Wolf-Bone should have been banned a long time ago if you think about it.

It took you all 3 million years to ban that Foxy kid and he was probably the king of talking shit from what I've heard and read.

Psycho, although I loved him to bits, took a long-ass time to be banned as well when it was obvious he was shit-posting all over the place.
Look, were pretty lenient on bans for a reason. This is a small forum of friends. We dont want to just ban everyone who bends the rules a bit, and we give a lot of second chances. Yes, we probably shouldnt give this many second chances, but for me, I really dont want to ban anyone from the forum for good. I like this forum and I like the people here and I dont want anyone getting booted off of it. I was very hesitant to ban Foxy and gave him a lot of second chances because Im a little too nice in that department, its really not that hard to get me to be lenient.

I mean if you guys want, I could go full on strict and uphold those rules with an iron fist, but you people would DEFINITELY be calling me Hitler because youd be banned if I saw so much as a little quarrel. Plus I dont like being overly strict, Im a pretty laid back person. If you guys dont want me to give as many second chances anymore, let me know, but until you do, Im going to be fairly lenient with bans and rules.

Tank Abuse wrote:
I did.

In the chat box a few weeks ago when Wolf-Bone was extremely depressed and was thinking about offing himself. I called him out on it and dared him to do it like I didn't give a shit whether he did it or not.

It was fucked up and I'm sorry for it, but I received no big-kid timeout as punishment.

I dont use the chat box, so I was never aware of that. Had I known, you probably would have been banned almost immediately.

I try to be lenient with bans, but the things that I will not give any second chances for is telling someone to go through with a suicide, or serious harassment/verbal insults. I have no patience for that stuff and sometimes I will fly off the handle when I see it. I can understand why it might seem like I get a little extreme in those situations, but Ive stated countless times that I have no patience for that stuff. Im sorry if that seems like an abuse of power or something, but I will not tolerate calling out someones flaws to use against them in harassment and I will not tolerate encouragements of suicide.

Say what you want about me or how I choose to react but those are two things I will not be changing my policy on. You do either one, its an immediate ban, the length of which is subject to the severity of the situation.

Those PMs were posted in the GTWT for all to see.

Also I have no problem with you being a lax admin, but 1-week long bans for one post is just ridiculous.


Granted, it was reversed, but still.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:09 pm

Tank Abuse wrote:
Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it didn't happen, which, might I add, is a shitty excuse considering you created this forum, and you're also the first admin that was put in place because of that; you should probably do a better job of watching over your castle. Riv, you never even touched the chat box now that I think about it (maybe you were in there once), and Kaizy was in there twice maybe.


Actually I'd go as far as to say that chatbox was where a good 70 percent of the "bullshit" went down.

Based on that opinion, how would everyone feel if the chatbox went down for good? I can hardly be arsed to read thousands of words of banal super-shitposting, and if it's a source of drama, maybe we'd be better off without it.

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:09 pm

I guess he had bigger fish to fry, like fucking with your account for no good reason other than because he can and he thinks it's funny. I mean Jesus Christ, you know that's a huge part of the reason I decided to stop fighting with you, right? It's like, what the hell you guys, it's one thing to poke fun at somebody but that goes way overboard and if someone hacked someone else's account just to troll them you ban their ass and possibly press charges.

Makes it a little more difficult to see myself as a villain on the forums, as convenient as it would be for me and for certainly the staff if I were.

Whether it's here, FAF, Werelist, or BTNHboard, it seems there's nowhere I can go without being banned for words. Words that strike a chord with the wrong person, cut a little too deep for some. My words pale in comparison to the deeds they commit upon their own creations.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:13 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
My words pale in comparison to the deeds they commit upon their own creations.

Dude... Your syntax. I swear you had more mastery over the English language before. I can't understand half of the sentences you've typed today. Are you drinking or something?

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:18 pm

Riv wrote:
Based on that opinion, how would everyone feel if the chatbox went down for good? I can hardly be arsed to read thousands of words of banal super-shitposting, and if it's a source of drama, maybe we'd be better off without it.

I don't think it makes much of a difference at this point. We all use Skype now. And the ones who don't, well, tough shit. Sucks to be them.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:24 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Riv wrote:
Based on that opinion, how would everyone feel if the chatbox went down for good? I can hardly be arsed to read thousands of words of banal super-shitposting, and if it's a source of drama, maybe we'd be better off without it.

I don't think it makes much of a difference at this point. We all use Skype now. And the ones who don't, well, tough shit. Sucks to be them.

You know, I've heard there's a lot of drama on Skype too.

Must be the evil admins at it again.

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:32 pm

Riv wrote:
Wolf-Bone wrote:
Riv wrote:
Based on that opinion, how would everyone feel if the chatbox went down for good? I can hardly be arsed to read thousands of words of banal super-shitposting, and if it's a source of drama, maybe we'd be better off without it.

I don't think it makes much of a difference at this point. We all use Skype now. And the ones who don't, well, tough shit. Sucks to be them.

You know, I've heard there's a lot of drama on Skype too.

Must be the evil admins at it again.

I'm not an admin on Skype either so I don't know what you're talking about. I thought I was the one responsible for all the drama.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:47 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
I'm not an admin on Skype either so I don't know what you're talking about. I thought I was the one responsible for all the drama.

Yeah, no, everything is always the administration's fault. Because really, why should we bother being good people if somebody else is just gonna break the rules?

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:51 pm

Riv wrote:
Wolf-Bone wrote:
I'm not an admin on Skype either so I don't know what you're talking about. I thought I was the one responsible for all the drama.

Yeah, no, everything is always the administration's fault. Because really, why should we bother being good people if somebody else is just gonna break the rules?

Because it's better than acting like a fuckin' female about it?
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:50 am

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Riv wrote:
Wolf-Bone wrote:
I'm not an admin on Skype either so I don't know what you're talking about. I thought I was the one responsible for all the drama.

Yeah, no, everything is always the administration's fault. Because really, why should we bother being good people if somebody else is just gonna break the rules?

Because it's better than acting like a fuckin' female about it?
Dont get sexist in arguments

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:29 am

As I said before I like the admins here. They haven't ever wronged me and have helped me a lot, both Kaizy and Riv. The reason I compared them to police earlier is even if they speed and run the occasional red light they also know what its like to be us so instead of writing a ticket they let us go with a warning. I think im gonna leave skype for awhile, this place is less dramatic and alot more comfortable, with a mutual respect.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:34 am

blackfuredfox wrote:
As I said before I like the admins here. They haven't ever wronged me and have helped me a lot, both Kaizy and Riv. The reason I compared them to police earlier is even if they speed and run the occasional red light they also know what its like to be us so instead of writing a ticket they let us go with a warning. I think im gonna leave skype for awhile, this place is less dramatic and alot more comfortable, with a mutual respect.

Y'know, even with how thick you've been laying it on, and despite you saying you're not kissing ass (guilty conscience much?), I wouldn't even think that if you didn't need to make it a point to announce you're ditching the Skype group for this. As if they're not the same group for all intents and purposes.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:55 am

Wolf-Bone wrote:
blackfuredfox wrote:
As I said before I like the admins here. They haven't ever wronged me and have helped me a lot, both Kaizy and Riv. The reason I compared them to police earlier is even if they speed and run the occasional red light they also know what its like to be us so instead of writing a ticket they let us go with a warning. I think im gonna leave skype for awhile, this place is less dramatic and alot more comfortable, with a mutual respect.

Y'know, even with how thick you've been laying it on, and despite you saying you're not kissing ass (guilty conscience much?), I wouldn't even think that if you didn't need to make it a point to announce you're ditching the Skype group for this. As if they're not the same group for all intents and purposes.
I wasnt even aware we had a Skype group anymore

I left the old GTW Skype chat years ago because it was inactive

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:13 am

Greg started it up a while ago. I can't say much bad about it, really. We have arguments, but I think most of us recognize that it's kinda what grownups do, and that they mostly only do it because they give a damn. So we get by pretty well without some self-appointed moral arbiters, save for Lucy, who, not believing in not holding grudges and promoting reconciliation nearly as much as he claims, has all but ensured my buddy Zack (The Fur) will never want to have anything to do with the place again. He feels bad about what he said in there and on here. Or he did, but then he moved on. Shame this group has such a hard time with that.

The truth is, you could say whatever you want about me, and it'd have a decent chance of being true. But it doesn't change the fact that we're all a little sick and fucked up here. I'm probably one of the only people here that actually acknowledges that he fucks up sometimes.

I wonder if that might not be my biggest mistake. Makes me a little too convenient to lay the blame for certain things on.
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:16 am

I like how I'm still getting flak because I asked The Fur to leave because he kept insulting Butters in the chat. I didn't make him leave, I just asked. And he left, of his own free will. Whatever problems he has with coming back is 100% his fault.

Leave me out of your conversations if I have nothing to do with them.

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:21 am

Lucy wrote:
I like how I'm still getting flak because I asked The Fur to leave because he kept insulting Butters in the chat. I didn't make him leave, I just asked. And he left, of his own free will. Whatever problems he has with coming back is 100% his fault.

Leave me out of your conversations if I have nothing to do with them.

Come on, that would be like him posting what he did and then following it up by saying it's Butters' fault if it upsets him. That's such a cop out and you know it. I know you're not man enough to tell him yourself you don't want there to be any lasting animosity if that's the case, so what if I did on your behalf? That'd pretty much make us even, wouldn't it?
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Lucy
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:23 am

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Lucy wrote:
I like how I'm still getting flak because I asked The Fur to leave because he kept insulting Butters in the chat. I didn't make him leave, I just asked. And he left, of his own free will. Whatever problems he has with coming back is 100% his fault.

Leave me out of your conversations if I have nothing to do with them.

Come on, that would be like him posting what he did and then following it up by saying it's Butters' fault if it upsets him. That's such a cop out and you know it. I know you're not man enough to tell him yourself you don't want there to be any lasting animosity if that's the case, so what if I did on your behalf? That'd pretty much make us even, wouldn't it?

No, it's someone not taking responsibility for what he did. If The Fur wants to come back, he can, and he knows it. The fact that he doesn't is his own problem and his own business. I've already made it explicitly clear to everyone that I hold no resentment against him. If said news never reached him, that's not really my fault, as he never sought me out.

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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:28 am

I tried my best, you didn't listen, whatever
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Lucy
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PostSubject: Re: General Time Wasting Forum Rules   Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:30 am

Maybe you should tell The Fur to come and talk to me if he has a problem and wants it resolved.

He's the only one with the issue.

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