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 The NRA is retarded.

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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


Posts : 3290
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Age : 40

The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 4:59 pm

Zaraphayx wrote:
Wolf-Bone wrote:
Zaraphayx wrote:
If there's anything this thread has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt it's that you really have no idea what I believe, but you have a very active imagination.

Yeah, and that's the wonderful thing. I actually open up about what the fuck I believe, make it known where I stand, you know, the kind of shit normal people try to do to make these discussions more than one guy getting to pretend how smart and mysterious he is while the other guy tries to get at something resembling the truth. I do indeed have a very active imagination, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the kind of bullshit you're pulling right now.

Accusing me of having multiple dispositions I do not have is not trying to get at anything resembling the truth; it's you trying to divert the topic of conversation onto my personal failings instead of the subject at hand.

If wanting to discuss ideas instead of trying to play armchair psychologist about why I might have certain ideas is some transparent attempt to be 'smart and mysterious' on the internet then I suppose you have finally gleamed some truth about my character.

Because, again, you use words intended to mean one thing to most people as if they mean another thing to everyone. And then look at me like I've got three heads for pointing out that I and we are not the ones who've got it twisted. Sure, it's not the same as madness to be in a minority of one, and you're not even that. But you resent even being made aware of that. That much was evident in your own responses. At this point, I don't really care where you fall on the political spectrum. I'm pretty sure you'd be a dick no matter where you fell, and doing a disservice to whatever cause you latched onto.
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Zaraphayx

Zaraphayx


Humor : I am not funny sorry :[
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Location : Phoenix, AZ

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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:04 pm

I honestly haven't seen you make anything resembling a legitimate attempt to contradict or even correct my use of terminology since you insisted that I didn't know what left/right wing meant, and when I offered you the chance to tell me I was wrong you declined.

Instead of just implying that I'm all backwards why don't you actually prove it instead of blowing smoke out of your ass?
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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:09 pm

Zaraphayx wrote:
I honestly haven't seen you make anything resembling a legitimate attempt to contradict or even correct my use of terminology since you insisted that I didn't know what left/right wing meant, and when I offered you the chance to tell me I was wrong you declined.

Instead of just implying that I'm all backwards why don't you actually prove it instead of blowing smoke out of your ass?

Because you and I both know you have neither the time nor the inclination to read a shitload of articles worth of material explaining why you're incorrect, and because I can't be arsed to condense it all for you. Now fuck off and let me enjoy my Christmas.
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Zaraphayx

Zaraphayx


Humor : I am not funny sorry :[
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The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:11 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Zaraphayx wrote:
I honestly haven't seen you make anything resembling a legitimate attempt to contradict or even correct my use of terminology since you insisted that I didn't know what left/right wing meant, and when I offered you the chance to tell me I was wrong you declined.

Instead of just implying that I'm all backwards why don't you actually prove it instead of blowing smoke out of your ass?

Because you and I both know you have neither the time nor the inclination to read a shitload of articles worth of material explaining why you're incorrect, and because I can't be arsed to condense it all for you. Now fuck off and let me enjoy my Christmas.

That's a cop out if I ever saw one.

I read "boring" things in my free time for fun; think of a better excuse the next time you decide to make accusations you can't back up with anything but more accusations.
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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:24 pm

It doesn't take a lot of time to find shit just as good as what's on wikipedia or better, jack ass. Feel free to see for yourself. It's not my job to spoon feed you.
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Zaraphayx

Zaraphayx


Humor : I am not funny sorry :[
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Location : Phoenix, AZ

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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:30 pm

Yeah the problem is the things I've read have pretty much given me the definitions and ideas I have. I was hoping you were savvy to some esoteric tomes of wisdom I was being denied on my American Internet.

Since I have now all but confirmed that you've been bluffing this whole time can we drop the curtain on this farce or is there a last word you'd like to get in?
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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:40 pm

Bluffing? I wasn't aware this was a game, just that you'd been trying to turn it into one. There's nothing "esoteric" about what I learn or how I interpret it. The confusion only seems to arise from your definition of left and right, which isn't that new to me, but is still, I believe, chiefly an American conceit. It makes its way onto the internet, to be espoused as though it is the entire truth, or truth at all, when it's simply a novel take (or in some extreme cases, a complete inversion) on already well-established concepts. And I guess that's just not good enough for some assholes, so they then have to say it's the rest of the world that's been wrong this entire time about what left and right mean. By the time they're done talking, the rest of us are left wondering if they even know what up and down are.
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Zaraphayx

Zaraphayx


Humor : I am not funny sorry :[
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The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:48 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Bluffing? I wasn't aware this was a game, just that you'd been trying to turn it into one. There's nothing "esoteric" about what I learn or how I interpret it. The confusion only seems to arise from your definition of left and right, which isn't that new to me, but is still, I believe, chiefly an American conceit. It makes its way onto the internet, to be espoused as though it is the entire truth, or truth at all, when it's simply a novel take (or in some extreme cases, a complete inversion) on already well-established concepts. And I guess that's just not good enough for some assholes, so they then have to say it's the rest of the world that's been wrong this entire time about what left and right mean. By the time they're done talking, the rest of us are left wondering if they even know what up and down are.

"That viewpoint is held by contemporary
sociologists, for whom 'right-wing movements' are conceptualized as
'social movements whose stated goals are to maintain structures of
order, status, honor, or traditional social differences or values' as
compared to left-wing movements which seek 'greater equality or
political participation.' In other words, the sociological perspective
sees preservationist politics as a right-wing attempt to defend
privilege within the social hierarchy."

-T. Alexander Smith and Raymond Tatalovich - Cultures at war: moral conflicts in western democracies

This was published by Broadview Press in 2003, in Toronto Canada.

I've now provided one more source for my definition of left and right than you have.

Ball is in your court.
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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 5:57 pm

Oh that's actually pretty good. You summed up my entire point with one neat little paragraph. Anarchism really can't be right-wing because it rejects institutions and hierarchies in general, to an extreme. Historically it's been much more closely aligned with Communism. I mean it's not to say people don't try to have their cake and eat it too: see Anarcho-Capitalism, or the American definition of Libertarian, which if it were really intellectually, ideologically and rhetorically honest would be called Propertarian or something like that. Meanwhile, Noam Chomsky considers himself a Libertarian Socialist. George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist. I'd tend to believe the distinction between those is practically splitting hairs. They're both left-wing which, I know, makes them Godless, evil Jews or something, but they, and I, are still a hell of a lot more Conservative (read: Right-Wing) than Anarchists I'd imagine.
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Zaraphayx

Zaraphayx


Humor : I am not funny sorry :[
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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Oh that's actually pretty good. You summed up my entire point with one neat little paragraph. Anarchism really can't be right-wing because it rejects institutions and hierarchies in general, to an extreme. Historically it's been much more closely aligned with Communism. I mean it's not to say people don't try to have their cake and eat it too: see Anarcho-Capitalism, or the American definition of Libertarian, which if it were really intellectually, ideologically and rhetorically honest would be called Propertarian or something like that. Meanwhile, Noam Chomsky considers himself a Libertarian Socialist. George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist. I'd tend to believe the distinction between those is practically splitting hairs. They're both left-wing which, I know, makes them Godless, evil Jews or something, but they, and I, are still a hell of a lot more Conservative (read: Right-Wing) than Anarchists I'd imagine.

I said that anarchy was the furthermost expression; the result of extremist right wing politics put into practice. I claimed that because the idea has historical precedence.

I don't believe that anarchy itself falls anywhere on the political spectrum because you know, it's the distinct lack of a government; I suppose if you had to label it as anything left-wing would be apt, but it's not as if anarchy has ever been a lasting form of government. (It kind of can't be :V)

Is that really what the last 2 pages of flowery prose have been about? A minor claim I made that was probably the least relevant to the rest of what I wrote?
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Wolf-Bone

Wolf-Bone


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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 6:36 pm

Zaraphayx wrote:
Wolf-Bone wrote:
Oh that's actually pretty good. You summed up my entire point with one neat little paragraph. Anarchism really can't be right-wing because it rejects institutions and hierarchies in general, to an extreme. Historically it's been much more closely aligned with Communism. I mean it's not to say people don't try to have their cake and eat it too: see Anarcho-Capitalism, or the American definition of Libertarian, which if it were really intellectually, ideologically and rhetorically honest would be called Propertarian or something like that. Meanwhile, Noam Chomsky considers himself a Libertarian Socialist. George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist. I'd tend to believe the distinction between those is practically splitting hairs. They're both left-wing which, I know, makes them Godless, evil Jews or something, but they, and I, are still a hell of a lot more Conservative (read: Right-Wing) than Anarchists I'd imagine.

I said that anarchy was the furthermost expression; the result of extremist right wing politics put into practice. I claimed that because the idea has historical precedence.

I don't believe that anarchy itself falls anywhere on the political spectrum because you know, it's the distinct lack of a government; I suppose if you had to label it as anything left-wing would be apt, but it's not as if anarchy has ever been a lasting form of government. (It kind of can't be :V)

Is that really what the last 2 pages of flowery prose have been about? A minor claim I made that was probably the least relevant to the rest of what I wrote?

No, it was actually trying to figure out how the hell you and a handful of others arrive at the conclusion that Right-Wing politics creates anarchy, and what this historical precedence is. It's pretty vexing considering that, historically, Fascism is the go-to example of far-right politics, and even more so when the present-day expressions of far-right thinking are either:

1) Ultra-Nationalist fringe groups who want to preserve their national identity, institutions, race, and all the privilege that affords them or used to.

2) Propertarians, State-Capitalists, Market Fundamentalists, etc.

3) Objectivists who are essentially some combination of the first 2 once their own "extreme individualist" bullshit breaks down and they have to latch onto something slightly more coherent, and last but not least,

4) Republicans, if only because they're pandering to all these to varying degrees depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Look, you and I actually had this same debate in past lives. I'm not sure which side our past selves were on, but it doesn't matter. There wasn't a conclusive victory, except that both Communism and Fascism didn't last, but Capitalism certainly did, and Socialism, while not quite dead yet, is certainly fighting an uphill battle in most parts even if it's working pretty well in the few countries that have it to any meaningful degree.

If these toothless, mulleted hicks worried the scary black Muslamic Infidel what wan't born in 'Merica is out to steal their guns and gold they've invested in like it makes a difference, are Anarchists because they want an extremely individualist, private, wild-west world like they think they'd be better suited to, it's only to the extent that they'd just as soon throw their lives away for a country they thought would head in that direction at government's behest. And we have a much more recent historical precedent for that. It was called damn near everyone who thought Bush was truly what he presented himself as, and would or could create a society (or lack thereof) in his image. And they were wrong then, like they're wrong now about Obama and the role of government.

There's nothing wrong with being wrong, or rather, there's nothing wrong with valuing individual rights, the right to protect one's self, the right of free-association, the right to own property, the right to benefit from the fruits of one's labor/intellect. But if you think this is even possible without a state of some kind, even if you're right-wing, you're still not right.
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Tank Abuse

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PostSubject: Re: The NRA is retarded.   The NRA is retarded. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2012 7:38 pm

lol
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