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Lunar
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PostSubject: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:53 pm

So after a few interesting dreams I've had lately, and hearing a few people talk about their own, I began studying dream symbolism. Pretty interesting stuff, that.

And so here's a thread to talk about what you think of symbolism, how you interpret dreams, or to just talk about one you had and how odd it was.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:22 pm

As someone who used to be very interested in this sort of thing, I now believe it all to be a bunch of woo. It doesn't help that a certain schizophrenic nutjob was obsessed with it before he shot the shit out of a bunch of people at a political rally in Arizona. So unless people want to be stigmatized I'd kinda advise they don't talk about this to most people, if they can't let go of it entirely, as I have done quite nicely I might add.

Seriously, the human mind and its contents have always been and will always be the most fascinating subject to us. But to dwell on them really reeks of intellectual masturbation - it might feel good, and it might not be inherently bad, but it doesn't produce anything of worth and after a while it starts to smell bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:51 pm

I don't subscribe to the symbolism field — but here's a good list of what dreams may be for;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream#Neurological_theories_of_dreams

My favorite is a combination of Robert (1886) and (Hennevin and Leconte, 1971), in which dreaming is the process of eliminating useless information and reinforcing valuable information and moving it to the long-term memory. Mostly because in my experience that's what dreams tend to do. I also like "Dreams for strengthening of semantic memories."

But I don't imagine there's much you can learn from your own dreams, everything in them comes from inside your own head, and you have access to most of the parts you care about anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:44 pm

Riv wrote:
I don't subscribe to the symbolism field — but here's a good list of what dreams may be for;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream#Neurological_theories_of_dreams

My favorite is a combination of Robert (1886) and (Hennevin and Leconte, 1971), in which dreaming is the process of eliminating useless information and reinforcing valuable information and moving it to the long-term memory. Mostly because in my experience that's what dreams tend to do. I also like "Dreams for strengthening of semantic memories."

But I don't imagine there's much you can learn from your own dreams, everything in them comes from inside your own head, and you have access to most of the parts you care about anyway.

so if most of your dreams are about wandering, looking for some kind of door or portal to get out of whatever hellish, eldritch abomination of a "world" you inhabit in your dream, only to stumble upon a new one when you leave it, until you finally kill yourself just to wake up, yes this would appear to be very useful information to reinforce.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:49 pm

lunar_helix wrote:


And so here's a thread to talk about what you think of symbolism, how you interpret dreams, or to just talk about one you had and how odd it was.

I'm not sold on the symbolism thing.

While I think most dreams are just nonsense mixed with real life events, I do think it's possible to learn a little about yourself from your own dream: how you really feel about a particular person, what you actually fear the most, etc. Some of my most memorable dreams have troubled me for months.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:38 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
Riv wrote:
I don't subscribe to the symbolism field — but here's a good list of what dreams may be for;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream#Neurological_theories_of_dreams

My favorite is a combination of Robert (1886) and (Hennevin and Leconte, 1971), in which dreaming is the process of eliminating useless information and reinforcing valuable information and moving it to the long-term memory. Mostly because in my experience that's what dreams tend to do. I also like "Dreams for strengthening of semantic memories."

But I don't imagine there's much you can learn from your own dreams, everything in them comes from inside your own head, and you have access to most of the parts you care about anyway.

so if most of your dreams are about wandering, looking for some kind of door or portal to get out of whatever hellish, eldritch abomination of a "world" you inhabit in your dream, only to stumble upon a new one when you leave it, until you finally kill yourself just to wake up, yes this would appear to be very useful information to reinforce.
Keep in mind, though, that a dream is not, by this interpretation, a direct feed of the information you're processing, it's just a marginally coherent plot based on your experiences that day and everything else you know.

Or maybe it's more along the lines of what is fleshed out under "Dreams as resonance in neural circuits," where dreams are just bits of brain undergoing feedback, much the same way a microphone does in front of a speaker. Without external stimulus to feed it, your brain just repeats little programs that all get meshed together into a semi-conscious experience.

The truth is, the exact mechanism of dreaming is not known; there are some good speculations based on fMRI data, but until the brain itself is better understood, we won't know for sure. I personally am fairly sure that dreams don't provide any special insight for the conscious mind, because, if they did, it wouldn't do a hell of a lot of good hours after the fact, while you're sleeping. And when a complex mechanism has no selection advantage, it usually doesn't exist.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:02 pm

Riv wrote:
Keep in mind, though, that a dream is not, by this interpretation, a direct feed of the information you're processing, it's just a marginally coherent plot based on your experiences that day and everything else you know.

Or maybe it's more along the lines of what is fleshed out under "Dreams as resonance in neural circuits," where dreams are just bits of brain undergoing feedback, much the same way a microphone does in front of a speaker. Without external stimulus to feed it, your brain just repeats little programs that all get meshed together into a semi-conscious experience.

The truth is, the exact mechanism of dreaming is not known; there are some good speculations based on fMRI data, but until the brain itself is better understood, we won't know for sure. I personally am fairly sure that dreams don't provide any special insight for the conscious mind, because, if they did, it wouldn't do a hell of a lot of good hours after the fact, while you're sleeping. And when a complex mechanism has no selection advantage, it usually doesn't exist.

I can not think of a single good reason why our dreams should resemble anything we can communicate in words or images, or why we should remember them. Yet they do, and we do. And in some cases of lucid dreaming, they even seem to serve a purpose of allowing you to take an active role in overcoming certain issues and trauma, or practicing something practical like music or whatever. But even for those of us who don't experience that, there's no reason people can't put their own meaning to them. I just think, being as personal and subjective as they are, allowing someone to impose their own interpretation on you defeats the purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:09 pm

Wolf-Bone wrote:
I just think, being as personal and subjective as they are, allowing someone to impose their own interpretation on you defeats the purpose.

That's a good point — unless somebody knows you quite well (Like bestest furrends furrevar!), I doubt they'd be able to work out an interpretation even remotely relevant to whatever it was your brain was doing on a given night.

That is, unless you subscribe to a Freudian view, in which case, you know everyone else better than they know themselves, because *appeal to authority fallacy goes here*.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:19 pm

Riv wrote:
That is, unless you subscribe to a Freudian view, in which case, you know everyone else better than they know themselves, because *appeal to authority fallacy goes here*.

Based on my own experience trying to get "help", Freud is alive and well, insofar as these jackoffs still think they know you better than you know yourself, within seconds of meeting you, and if you challenge that notion (and the subsequent snap judgments "diagnosis"), well clearly, you're the kind of person who's beyond help because he doesn't really want to be helped.

I'm willing to entertain the thought that my experience had more to do the fact that it's Glorious Soviet Rural Canuckistan, where we get the worst of any and all services and none of the people who our tax dollars pay to fill these roles want to be in their job/local buttfuck where their overlords sent them out to "civilize the savages".

But that in itself is a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:18 am

melomethis wrote:
lunar_helix wrote:


And so here's a thread to talk about what you think of symbolism, how you interpret dreams, or to just talk about one you had and how odd it was.

I'm not sold on the symbolism thing.

While I think most dreams are just nonsense mixed with real life events, I do think it's possible to learn a little about yourself from your own dream: how you really feel about a particular person, what you actually fear the most, etc. Some of my most memorable dreams have troubled me for months.
Isn't that sort of symbolism? My girlfriend had a dream the other night about waking up next to me on a bed with pure white sheets. That, to me, represents purity and innocence.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:14 am

lunar_helix wrote:
Isn't that sort of symbolism? My girlfriend had a dream the other night about waking up next to me on a bed with pure white sheets. That, to me, represents purity and innocence.

There could be a boatload of alternate interpretations to that, though. If you've pursued lucid dreaming/dream recall for a while, what one tends to find is that the world in dreams is not very realistic at all. Pure white sheets are much simpler and easier for the mind to hold onto than sheets with patterns on them. Complex images in dreams have a tendency to change or become distorted when you look away and look back, or even while you're looking at them, so in some cases it might omit them entirely.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:20 pm

I had a dream that has been recurring over the past couple years.

I'm in an airplane, and it's just a small bush plane, my cousin is driving (she's a drunken drug dealer who is stoned a lot of the time. We are flying over a forest somewhere, dirt roads and the like. We land for some reason on one of these roads and there is a polar bear right there, this polar bear is rather large bigger than our plane. Then we drive down the road a bit to get clear of this polar bear and run into a bigger one. This one is gargantuan for some reason I decide since we aren't able to take off to get out and run down the dirt road in the middle of nowhere and explore; however, there is a small settlement here and there are strange men in a shack, the men see me, shoot out the window with a shotgun then chase me down, the only thing I have is a blanket (where it came from no idea), and I run away from them since they seem intent on killing me for some reason. So I run into a small thicket with my blanket and hide behind a little willow tree under my blanket. The men can't find me for the blanket is the perfect disguise and they walk past, shoot a bit, then go away. I run back to the plane where my cohorts are sitting and staring out the window, smoking and what not. Then the dream ends.

I find it to be a strange dream.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:13 pm

I have a reoccurring dream that I can suck my own dick. Every time I think it's for real this time, and then I wake up and realize it's still impossible :<

It feels so REAL though!

(I haven't had this dream in quite a while now though, probably because I'm fapping too much to have sexytime dreams :V)
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:48 pm

greg-the-fox wrote:
I have a reoccurring dream that I can suck my own dick. Every time I think it's for real this time, and then I wake up and realize it's still impossible :<

It feels so REAL though!

(I haven't had this dream in quite a while now though, probably because I'm fapping too much to have sexytime dreams :V)

greg you are gay and priceless
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:27 pm

I have this one recurring dream (that I actually haven't had for a while)... there is no visual in it, everything is black. However, in the dream, whatever it is that I am doing... it is either too much or not enough or wrong and I am constantly in trouble. XD
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:03 am

I had a dream about Melo once. When I woke up my shorts were soaked.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:17 pm

Barnabus wrote:
I had a dream about Melo once. When I woke up my shorts were soaked.

I sure didn't miss comments like these when you were gone...

just.. let me prepare for the devastation you'll be doing to my mind while you're still here.

*mumblemumblesayscummumblemumblestuffaboutanalgapingmumble*
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:22 pm

I had a dream I was in a car with my whole family and we went plunging off a cliff into the ocean. :T
wtf
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:24 pm

greg-the-fox wrote:
I had a dream I was in a car with my whole family and we went plunging off a cliff into the ocean. :T
wtf

I had a dream someone was in my pants... and that person was you :U






no but really, I HATE this. this morning, I had a weird ass dream, but now I don't remember it... all I know is it was very strange... ARGH
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:39 am

I had a semi-lucid, full-color dream Sunday afternoon; the first I'd had in quite a while. I'd lain down to have a nap after a fruitless morning of duck hunting (little green-headed teases). In the dream, I was riding a motorcycle to work, but realized I'd forgotten something and would have to turn around to get it, which would make me late for work. I pulled into the parking lot of a church, and rode up a ramp that led into the church itself. It was a "megachurch", one of those enormous churches whose interior started out life intended as a warehouse but ended up as a huge sanctuary. There was no one in the church when I arrived. I parked the bike (inside, the ramp I rode up somehow ended up inside the church itself) and started looking around for something- not really clear what it was I was looking for; I think a phone to call my boss and tell him I would be late. I wandered deeper into the church, which was really just one huge room, with seating for the congregation in the middle and ramps like the one I'd ridden up along the sides, and a huge stage in the front. A bus pulled up on the stage- it was that big- along the edge of the stage. I recognized it as a bus from the Sheriff's Office I'd worked at, with a prisoner driving, and a female deputy I knew as a passenger. She started to get off the bus and I waved at her, and then watched as the edge of the stage crumbled and the bus fell off the edge of the stage (which was at least two stories above the floor of the congregational area). I don't remember much of the intervening time; a lot of running around to see if they were alright, the church filling up with people for a service, then going back to get my bike, which was missing. I walked out of the church looking for my bike, and over to a tow company which was located at the entrance of the church; I found some people working there, who were more interested in their conversation than with me, who finally told me that they had towed the bike because it was parked in the church but that it was in pieces and I'd have to put it back together. I was furious, wondering how I'd do this and still make it to work, when I woke up.

I call it a semi-lucid dream, because at one point one of the tow company workers asked me what kind of bike it was, and I had to think about it; I knew it was red, and the vague memory I had of it led me to call it a Kawasaki GPz1100, and I remember thinking "I've never owned one of those". At that point I knew I was dreaming, and consciously filled in the details as to what kind of bike it was, and even told myself in the dream "Hey, this is a dream". That's about as close as I get to lucid dreaming.

Ananlyze that one, 'cause I ain't got a clue.

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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:33 am

katmandu wrote:
loads of semi-lucid dream stuff.


I had a dream once I read a post of yours on a different forum and it had that exact same avatar. Freaky shit. Either that or you actually have managed to hang onto a single image that long which seems to be a feat even my obsessive pack rat ass can't manage.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:05 am

Wolf-Bone wrote:
I had a dream once I read a post of yours on a different forum and it had that exact same avatar. Freaky shit. Either that or you actually have managed to hang onto a single image that long which seems to be a feat even my obsessive pack rat ass can't manage.

It's called laziness. And now you've guilted me into changing my avatar.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:26 am

katmandu wrote:
Wolf-Bone wrote:
I had a dream once I read a post of yours on a different forum and it had that exact same avatar. Freaky shit. Either that or you actually have managed to hang onto a single image that long which seems to be a feat even my obsessive pack rat ass can't manage.

It's called laziness. And now you've guilted me into changing my avatar.

Yeah, I loved Zenia's derpy WuffBone so I'm glad I saved that banner. I wonder how many of those old anthro artists are even still alive.
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:35 pm

I had a dream that I was running around a city trying to find the highest tower I could to jump off because I had portal boots (for some reason) The highest I could find was a radio tower or something at 100 Meters but I realized the Sears Willis Tower was 400 Meters. But when I got up to the roof I couldn't even look over the edge and I nearly pissed myself inglip (The height I just came up with in my dream, but it came very close to the real thing. I was using meters because Portal I guess.)

Then I dreamed I was taking shelter in a school because there was a hurricane coming or something. And I was looking for a bathroom but it was one of those dreams where all the walls were missing or something and girls were there so I had to give up and later totally forgot about it (no i didn't go in my bed)

And then I was fighting a gorilla-type monster in a classroom in a video game style battle (I think it was actually Worf from that episode where he de-evolved into a proto Klingon monster) pokerface true story
Spoiler:
 

And then I was with some friends and I was going to school there, and my friend was getting married. And I felt happy for him but also angry and kind of confused. It seemed like everyone was getting married. And of course they were all just hot cheerleader bitches. And then the groom turned into (normal) Worf I think. Or maybe I just imagined it for a second.

Spoiler:
 

And suddenly I wanted to hurt both of them but I thought better of it.

And then we left to go to our next class but me and another friend (which was like two of my rl friends merged together) went to get lunch, because the school was also like a giant shopping mall with a food court in it. But I realized it was the first day of school and I didn't know when my next class was because i'd left my backpack with my schedule in it in my locker, on the other side of this enormous school. And it was almost 5pm so I was sure I had a class soon.

(And then I woke up and it WAS almost 5 pm!)
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PostSubject: Re: Dreams. Go, discuss.   Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:34 am

proto-Klingon Worf was easily the coolest/scariest thing in that entire series. I mean the whole episode is classic Nightmare Fuel, but for someone like me that's always been especially fascinated by the Klingons (I always wished they would've done a series/movie about the founding of their civilization), you gotta really think, if that's what Klingons evolved from, how the hell did they even progress far enough to form an intelligent, cohesive species? It's like a planet of fuckin' mirelurks!
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