Horror Game Debate n Shit

Because me and 8bit debate on this topic constantly, and the amount of thread derailments that follow is staggering. So, heres a thread where we can bitch about horror games all day without having to stray off topic on every other thread on the forum.

So to start this off, let's continue from last night

8-bit wrote:

Kaizy, RE5, even though its plot was awfull, it is NOTHING like Call of Dookie.
CoD is a generic shooter where as RE5 is a moderate game with a meh plot (though wesker was fantastic power and dialogue-wise.

Lets be honest here, RE5 IS a generic shooter. Generic protagonist Chris Roids McHeHulk Redfield runs around *insert 3rd world country here* with generic bimbo teammate #412, gets fucktons of weaponry and shoots everything in sight. Theres a whole big thing about how the bad guys are gonna "take over the world" and Chris and his 30 high powered weapons are the only things that can stop it.

That basic plot right there, that is what every generic shooter game out there is built to be, and RE5 fits right in. I compare it to CoD because its got the same terrible action-porn plot as CoD, only theres some parasite monsters. Its bland, overpacked with "action", theres no difficulty, theres no thought process involved with playing, its deviated so far from horror that it doesnt deserve to even stick that genre on the game anymore...RE5 was the horrible abomination that proved the horror game genre has become a raging pile of crap.

Also, you wanna talk about cheap invincible stuff, Wesker was the walking incarnation of cheap and frustrating bosses. He goes fucking Matrix, dodging bullets n shit, zooms around the arena like hes Sonics long lost cousin...he has to be one of the most cheesy and bland characters I have ever seen in a game. How do you turn someone like Wesker, who was more of a diskish evil in the RE series into a comic book villain like that? It baffles me even to this day.

Minecraft is a legitimate survival horror game
Discuss

I missed out on the golden age of horror games because I was too young to appreciate them at the time (Silent Hill, Resi Evil, etc). Are there any good modern horrors on the 360?

RE5 isn't particularly generic, but that doesn't mean it's very good. It's fun to play with a friend, that's about it.

Ahkmill wrote:

RE5 isn't particularly generic, but that doesn't mean it's very good. It's fun to play with a friend, that's about it.

Its horribly generic, are you kidding me? RE5 took a swan dive into becoming every other shooting game ever created. Capcom lost their shit.

Thlayli wrote:

I missed out on the golden age of horror games because I was too young to appreciate them at the time (Silent Hill, Resi Evil, etc). Are there any good modern horrors on the 360?

Dead Space 1 and 2
Ive also heard decent things about the new Silent Hill game, Downpour

I hated Dead Space. Too jumpy and not psychological enough, and yeah I have been kinda curious about the new Silent Hill. Also, Alan Wake was good.

Thlayli wrote:

I hated Dead Space. Too jumpy and not psychological enough, and yeah I have been kinda curious about the new Silent Hill. Also, Alan Wake was good.

Yeah, it was really jumpy, thats really my only complaint towards it. If you read into it, Dead Space actually has a really creepy story behind all of it and its fucking beautiful.

greg-the-fox wrote:

Minecraft is a legitimate survival horror game
Discuss

Minecraft is scarier than almost every horror game out on the market today

/fact

Kaizy, Wesker didnt change at all, inly the fancy way he zipped around. Perhaps you should play CV again and see he was gathering virus samples and zipping around.

And RE5 had some tense moments, like being attacked by four of thos chompy Plagas while running from a fly monster ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod. And not difficult? Try playing on professional

Im not defending the horror aspect, but it isn't as bad as you say. One thing I fucking hated in past RE titles is the puzzle-in-a-puzzle shit. I need to solve puzzles to get an item to solve the puzzle that's preventing me from solving the puzzle. Starring Leonardo DeCaprio

And stfu about the abundance of weapons. RE2 was the same; there was enough ammo to kill everythin and STILL have enough for the end bosses. I know RE5 was horribly flawed story-wise, but shut the fuck up about it being the worst thing ever.

I'm just going to, once again, point to games like Cold Fear and Siren, that might not be quite as good as the older horror games, but have most of what made them good. Also, Silent Hill Downpour is really underrated. It's the first horror game I've played in quite a while where I really felt like I had to conserve ammo, found myself running away from enemies a lot, limping around with little health, getting lost in a town/building, etc.

The problem with RE 5 was they wanted to make something like RE 4, but with multiplayer capabilities, and ended up focusing so much on that at the expense of what made RE 4 as good as it was. I think OP is being a bit too harsh on it, because it's at least good at what it does, and does manage to provide some "oh shit" moments when you get cornered, have a really heavy wave of enemies (usually coming from all sides), get low on health, etc. I think compared to something like Operation Raccoon City, RE 5 is hardly a pure action game. Hell, maybe action adventure, but Raccoon City doesn't even have the adventure part, and gives you unlimited ammo for all intents and purposes. But even that manages to be good at making you feel like you're in the midst of a zombie apocalypse (albeit one where your biggest threat is other humans - even Mr. X and Nemesis aren't quite as difficult to take down as a small squad of Spec Ops). Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say it does one thing just a bit better than RE 5, and that's create an air of uncertainty. With more teammates, zombies that can turn into crimson heads, the chance of getting infected, extremely limited healing, infinitely spawning enemies at certain points, it can be a pretty hectic experience occasionally. But I still think RE 5 is the better game overall.

I've only had the chance to play bits and pieces of RE Revelations, but from what I've seen, heard and experienced for myself, it seems to strike a pretty good balance between the more intuitive, streamlined style of the past few RE games and horror/atmosphere. But I dunno, I think horror games are just meant for consoles, even if the 3D effect does make it a bit more immersive. Which, BTW, Downpour has if you're one of the dozen people on the planet with a 3D TV.

As for Wesker, I don't get the hate. I felt he was very well designed, very well portrayed, and pretty believable if you can suspend your disbelief enough to accept something like Oroborous existing. It is to him what the ring is to Gollum, except Wesker has no redeeming qualities, at all. He's narcissistic, megalomaniacle, possibly a sociopath, and doesn't really give off the vibe of incomprehensible motives/generic "insanity" of other video game villains, especially those of past Resident Evil games. His final form isn't as good a design or boss encounter as those of Saddler and Krauser, but I think his "human" form at least manages to meet (if not beat) that of Krauser in terms of challenge - until you unlock and fully upgrade any of the magnums at least.

I'm just going to say one more time, Cold Fear if you want something like RE 4 but with a little more oldschool survival horror thrown in, and pretty much any of the Siren games if you want a mindfuck the likes of Silent Hill but with an emphasis on stealth and thinking your way out of the levels.

8-bit wrote:

Kaizy, Wesker didnt change at all, inly the fancy way he zipped around. Perhaps you should play CV again and see he was gathering virus samples and zipping around.

And RE5 had some tense moments, like being attacked by four of thos chompy Plagas while running from a fly monster ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod. And not difficult? Try playing on professional

Im not defending the horror aspect, but it isn't as bad as you say. One thing I fucking hated in past RE titles is the puzzle-in-a-puzzle shit. I need to solve puzzles to get an item to solve the puzzle that's preventing me from solving the puzzle. Starring Leonardo DeCaprio

And stfu about the abundance of weapons. RE2 was the same; there was enough ammo to kill everythin and STILL have enough for the end bosses. I know RE5 was horribly flawed story-wise, but shut the fuck up about it being the worst thing ever.

Its kind of hard to shut up about it being the worst thing ever when it pretty much is one of the worst games Ive ever had to experience.

I never actually got to play through CV, so if Wesker was a teleporting douchbag in that too, I can see where RE5 got the inspiration to fuck up.

My most tense moment in RE5 was deciding whether or not to snap the disk in two. I opted to sell it instead, but youre right, the game did provide me with a pretty tense moment.

Well, you cant defend the horror aspect because it wasnt scary. In the same way, Im not defending the overabundance of puzzles in past RE titles. The amount of backtracking needed to complete a puzzle, especially if you fuck up, was ridiculous, but in all honesty, Id prefer it to such a blandly linear game experience like RE5, where its like playing with massive neon arrows that just say "KEEP MOVING FORWARD".

As far as RE2s weapon list, it had 14. A bit much for a horror game, but lets see what RE5s weapon count is. It has 27. I mean, even a game like fucking Dead Space 2, as good as it is, only had fucking 12 weapons, excluding the Handcannon and Rivet Gun, and its LESS scary than RE2 or DS1. I can understand having a lot of weapons but fucking 27? Why the hell does a horror game need 3 different kinds of grenades and free rocket launchers?

So, I will gladly shut the fuck up about it being the worst thing ever when it stops BEING the worst thing ever. Maybe when RE6 hits the shelves, RE5 will be dethroned as "Worst Horror Game of the Century".

Im fucking done.

Wolf-Bone wrote:

I'm just going to, once again, point to games like Cold Fear and Siren, that might not be quite as good as the older horror games, but have most of what made them good. Also, Silent Hill Downpour is really underrated. It's the first horror game I've played in quite a while where I really felt like I had to conserve ammo, found myself running away from enemies a lot, limping around with little health, getting lost in a town/building, etc.

The problem with RE 5 was they wanted to make something like RE 4, but with multiplayer capabilities, and ended up focusing so much on that at the expense of what made RE 4 as good as it was. I think OP is being a bit too harsh on it, because it's at least good at what it does, and does manage to provide some "oh shit" moments when you get cornered, have a really heavy wave of enemies (usually coming from all sides), get low on health, etc. I think compared to something like Operation Raccoon City, RE 5 is hardly a pure action game. Hell, maybe action adventure, but Raccoon City doesn't even have the adventure part, and gives you unlimited ammo for all intents and purposes. But even that manages to be good at making you feel like you're in the midst of a zombie apocalypse (albeit one where your biggest threat is other humans - even Mr. X and Nemesis aren't quite as difficult to take down as a small squad of Spec Ops). Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say it does one thing just a bit better than RE 5, and that's create an air of uncertainty. With more teammates, zombies that can turn into crimson heads, the chance of getting infected, extremely limited healing, infinitely spawning enemies at certain points, it can be a pretty hectic experience occasionally. But I still think RE 5 is the better game overall.

I've only had the chance to play bits and pieces of RE Revelations, but from what I've seen, heard and experienced for myself, it seems to strike a pretty good balance between the more intuitive, streamlined style of the past few RE games and horror/atmosphere. But I dunno, I think horror games are just meant for consoles, even if the 3D effect does make it a bit more immersive. Which, BTW, Downpour has if you're one of the dozen people on the planet with a 3D TV.

As for Wesker, I don't get the hate. I felt he was very well designed, very well portrayed, and pretty believable if you can suspend your disbelief enough to accept something like Oroborous existing. It is to him what the ring is to Gollum, except Wesker has no redeeming qualities, at all. He's narcissistic, megalomaniacle, possibly a sociopath, and doesn't really give off the vibe of incomprehensible motives/generic "insanity" of other video game villains, especially those of past Resident Evil games. His final form isn't as good a design or boss encounter as those of Saddler and Krauser, but I think his "human" form at least manages to meet (if not beat) that of Krauser in terms of challenge - until you unlock and fully upgrade any of the magnums at least.

I'm just going to say one more time, Cold Fear if you want something like RE 4 but with a little more oldschool survival horror thrown in, and pretty much any of the Siren games if you want a mindfuck the likes of Silent Hill but with an emphasis on stealth and thinking your way out of the levels.

I havent heard of Cold Fear, but Ive heard of Siren and Downpour. Im gonna look into those because I want to see if theyre worth playing. I need some good horror games to play.

Yes, you can see that RE5 wanted to be RE4 and failed at it in almost every aspect. The problem is, moments where Im trapped in a corner by a dozen foreign drones screaming and hitting me with gardening tools doesnt make me say "oh shit" or worry me in the least. Its just boring. I could play games like Left 4 Dead and get cornered by zombies almost every 5 minutes, and actually have fun while doing it. If it seems like Im being so harsh on it, its because it is literally the most disappointing and boring game Ive ever played through. I blew $60 on a new RE game, expecting something as great, if not better than RE4, and what I got was Capcom stroking their dicks with my money while I played a big fucking let down. It had no horror, not even a fucking Regenerator, there were too many fucking weapons, they ruined the weapon/item storage system by returning to the slot system, the enemies were just as uninteresting as they could be, the boss battles were so unmemorable and stupid (they had an El Gigante clone that you kill with a fucking turret with infinite ammo, and I remember one boss being killed with infinite rockets or something), the quick time events are all copy/pasted from RE4, your parter is dumb as bricks and the fact that you even HAVE a partner is fucking stupid...I dont feel like Im playing an RE title, a horror title, a survival title...I honestly feel like Im playing a generic shooter game like Gears of War or Call of Duty. I just cannot enjoy that game in any way, shape, or form. Even as a game to just play when you want to shoot things, it fails because its just so bland and doesnt stand out as anything appealing over any of the other games I could play to achieve that same goal. As I said, L4D does a way better job of being that game I can go to when I want to just shoot zombies...hell even Dead Space is a better pick. I just honestly, with every bit of dislike I can muster up, hate RE5. In my eyes, it fails at everything.

Also, if you compare Cold Fear to RE4 and say its more old school survival horror, Im definitely going to check that shit out.

8-bit wrote:

Im fucking done.

I figured that would happen at some point

Kaizy, seriously, you need to play more games if you're going to call RE 5 the worst. Even if the gameplay and production values weren't there, you'd still be left with a game that isn't plagued with the problems of games like Fallout, Skyrim, Alone In The Dark Inferno, Condemned 2, the last three or four Silent Hill games that came out before Downpour, pretty much every Tomb Raider game since the first few, just about any licensed game that isn't Arkham Asylum/City, Devil May Cry 2, and yes, even those games I just mentioned like Downpour, Cold Fear, Siren and Operation Raccoon City.

RE 5 doesn't have you sitting through endless loading screens just traveling between areas or between cutscenes. It doesn't have you getting permanently stuck on parts of the environment, or mysteriously missing items and characters. It doesn't have crippling lag and glitches that make the game incompletable that trigger if you so much as breathe on it the wrong way. It doesn't have you playing in environments that look like something out of a PS1 game while the textures and geometry load. It doesn't let you fall through the floor.

I mean, I get some of your frustrations about how much of it feels like a rehash of RE 4, and not executed as well at that. But I also kind of saw RE 4 as one of those games like RE 2 that was destined to be the game everything else is measured against; a tough act to follow. So I ended up actually being a bit surprised I liked it as much as I did, even if I know RE 4 was probably the better game. But to call it the worst?

By the way, those other games you compared it to happen to be pretty damn popular, and while I haven't played most of them, I doubt it's entirely unearned. If it's ripping them off blatantly, which I doubt, that I could see you having a problem with, but Resident Evil itself is a series that has always borrowed pretty liberally from other games, and in turn has been a series many others borrow from... Like, pretty much every game, ever.

TL;DR FFS get out more

Wolf-Bone wrote:

Kaizy, seriously, you need to play more games if you're going to call RE 5 the worst. Even if the gameplay and production values weren't there, you'd still be left with a game that isn't plagued with the problems of games like Fallout, Skyrim, Alone In The Dark Inferno, Condemned 2, the last three or four Silent Hill games that came out before Downpour, pretty much every Tomb Raider game since the first few, just about any licensed game that isn't Arkham Asylum/City, Devil May Cry 2, and yes, even those games I just mentioned like Downpour, Cold Fear, Siren and Operation Raccoon City.

RE 5 doesn't have you sitting through endless loading screens just traveling between areas or between cutscenes. It doesn't have you getting permanently stuck on parts of the environment, or mysteriously missing items and characters. It doesn't have crippling lag and glitches that make the game incompletable that trigger if you so much as breathe on it the wrong way. It doesn't have you playing in environments that look like something out of a PS1 game while the textures and geometry load. It doesn't let you fall through the floor.

I mean, I get some of your frustrations about how much of it feels like a rehash of RE 4, and not executed as well at that. But I also kind of saw RE 4 as one of those games like RE 2 that was destined to be the game everything else is measured against; a tough act to follow. So I ended up actually being a bit surprised I liked it as much as I did, even if I know RE 4 was probably the better game. But to call it the worst?

By the way, those other games you compared it to happen to be pretty damn popular, and while I haven't played most of them, I doubt it's entirely unearned. If it's ripping them off blatantly, which I doubt, that I could see you having a problem with, but Resident Evil itself is a series that has always borrowed pretty liberally from other games, and in turn has been a series many others borrow from... Like, pretty much every game, ever.

Ive played bad games, I really have. Ive played all sorts of games with those crippling problems you mentioned, and you know what, it doesnt matter. If a game has one of those crippling problems, it should be making up for it somewhere in the game, whether it be fun gameplay, good story...something is usually there that makes overlooking those problems worth playing the game. RE5 may not have had loading screens or disappearing stuff (honestly, I didnt even think these were crippling problems?), but it has nothing significant to make it fun to play. Its just boring as hell. The fact that its an RE4 rehash with more action elements is what makes it such a fucking snorefest. Just because it doesnt have common problems the more well known titles out there do, doesnt mean its deserving of praise for being so mediocre. I call it the worst because its just simply one of the most boring titles Ive had to play.

Also, I never said anything about it ripping off other games, I just said it had become as generic as every other game out there.

Wolf-Bone wrote:

TL;DR FFS get out more

Mature

Kaizy wrote:

horror game genre has become a raging pile of crap.

Nope.

Lucan wrote:

Kaizy wrote:

horror game genre has become a raging pile of crap.

Nope.

I defend that game to the death, but apparently 8bit thinks differently
Ill let him explain his side of it

Kaizy wrote:

Ive played bad games, I really have. Ive played all sorts of games with those crippling problems you mentioned, and you know what, it doesnt matter. If a game has one of those crippling problems, it should be making up for it somewhere in the game, whether it be fun gameplay, good story...something is usually there that makes overlooking those problems worth playing the game. RE5 may not have had loading screens or disappearing stuff (honestly, I didnt even think these were crippling problems?), but it has nothing significant to make it fun to play. Its just boring as hell. The fact that its an RE4 rehash with more action elements is what makes it such a fucking snorefest. Just because it doesnt have common problems the more well known titles out there do, doesnt mean its deserving of praise for being so mediocre. I call it the worst because its just simply one of the most boring titles Ive had to play.

Also, I never said anything about it ripping off other games, I just said it had become as generic as every other game out there.

I just don't get your whole thought process, obviously. For a lot of people, those technical issues are pretty fucking important, and with good reason, I think. When I was having a problem with one of the quests in Downpour, which is one of the most important and it turns out is broken in some way no matter what you do, a guy on YouTube (where I went looking for solutions) summed it up perfectly in his video demonstration/rant:



Games aren't exactly getting any cheaper, but they're increasingly being made cheaper in some way or another, and it shows. You really can't say that about RE 5. The amount of work that went into that game can't be disregarded. It might not be your taste, and that's fine, but to call it a shitty game compared to this game, which I really like and would even consider the better horror game is just wrong. Games are an art, but they're a very young art. However, they're also products, and they've been around long enough that there is a certain degree of objectivity in weighing their merits, and that's in the technical department. I can easily see why something like Downpour, which I find scarier, or Skyrim, which I find more immersive/versatile than Resident Evil 5 would not be considered by many to be as good a game just because RE 5 was clearly released as a finished product.

Look, there's a huge element of subjectivity when it comes to games. I liked SH Shattered Memories more than I probably should've because of the headspace I was in around the time I played it, not unlike SH Homecoming. Even Cold Fear I mostly liked for subjective reasons, like how it felt like as much a homage to RE 4 and older survival horror games as a stand-alone game (if not more), and that appeals to me in a way it didn't for a lot of critics. RE 5 just doesn't hit the right nerves for you, but did you consider maybe those nerves have changed? Maybe they're gone? I'm not sure I'd respond to a lot of horror games now the way I did when they were still new, and I know half my problem enjoying Skyrim at first was that it wasn't really "Fallout with magic and no guns" like I was kinda imagining.

But I can still see why a game is good on its own merits even if I don't really like it. You seem just hell-bent on hating RE 5 for whatever reason(s) you think are sensible when you don't even really need a sensible reason if it's just not your type of game. But for God's sake, I'd hope you have more sense than these RE fanboys that still haven't gotten over the late 90's/early 00's and are really missing that era more than the RE games from then.

Wolf-Bone wrote:

I just don't get your whole thought process, obviously. For a lot of people, those technical issues are pretty fucking important, and with good reason, I think. When I was having a problem with one of the quests in Downpour, which is one of the most important and it turns out is broken in some way no matter what you do, a guy on YouTube (where I went looking for solutions) summed it up perfectly in his video demonstration/rant:



Games aren't exactly getting any cheaper, but they're increasingly being made cheaper in some way or another, and it shows. You really can't say that about RE 5. The amount of work that went into that game can't be disregarded. It might not be your taste, and that's fine, but to call it a shitty game compared to this game, which I really like and would even consider the better horror game is just wrong. Games are an art, but they're a very young art. However, they're also products, and they've been around long enough that there is a certain degree of objectivity in weighing their merits, and that's in the technical department. I can easily see why something like Downpour, which I find scarier, or Skyrim, which I find more immersive/versatile than Resident Evil 5 would not be considered by many to be as good a game just because RE 5 was clearly released as a finished product.

Look, there's a huge element of subjectivity when it comes to games. I liked SH Shattered Memories more than I probably should've because of the headspace I was in around the time I played it, not unlike SH Homecoming. Even Cold Fear I mostly liked for subjective reasons, like how it felt like as much a homage to RE 4 and older survival horror games as a stand-alone game (if not more), and that appeals to me in a way it didn't for a lot of critics. RE 5 just doesn't hit the right nerves for you, but did you consider maybe those nerves have changed? Maybe they're gone? I'm not sure I'd respond to a lot of horror games now the way I did when they were still new, and I know half my problem enjoying Skyrim at first was that it wasn't really "Fallout with magic and no guns" like I was kinda imagining.

But I can still see why a game is good on its own merits even if I don't really like it. You seem just hell-bent on hating RE 5 for whatever reason(s) you think are sensible when you don't even really need a sensible reason if it's just not your type of game. But for God's sake, I'd hope you have more sense than these RE fanboys that still haven't gotten over the late 90's/early 00's and are really missing that era more than the RE games from then.

Its not that Im even missing those games, I mean I really dont even expect them to ever release an RE1 or RE2 style game these days, its just this big disappointing turn that the RE series took from horror to action with RE4 and RE5. I could stomach it more in RE4 because it still had some of the RE elements to it and had some genuinely creepy moments, but I still have my personal issues with RE4. RE5 came along and it just didnt sit with me well at all because, while not expecting an RE1 homage, it was just so unlike an RE game and it was such a disappointment to see the one series I thought I could count on since my childhood to give me a fun horroresque gaming experience, turn into this overly produced flashy piece of trash that all other games had become. It was starting to show me just how lame horror was and is becoming.

Almost no good horror games remain anymore. Theyre all packed with action cutscenes, massive arsenals of weaponry, and are riddled with cheap scare tactics like random jumpscares. The way horror is going today is something thats becoming a severe disappointment for me to see, and RE5 was one of the biggest contributers to that realization. Why do I hate RE5 so much when its such an average game? Its because of that right there. Its a big shining example that horror is losing touch with its roots. Its got nothing to do with the RE series turning into shit (though thats a part of it), its that horror games are my favorite kinds of games and almost every game I see marketed under horror now is lacking in everything that makes horror "horror" and overabundant in everything that makes action "action". Even horror games I praise like Dead Space lost most of their "horror" factor within a short period of time; theres only so many times the same creatures can burst through a vent before I start expecting it constantly and grow desensitized.

None of these new "horror" games focus on atmosphere, tension, survival...no, its all action, guns, watching heads explode and giving creatures so much facetime, they could start a TV show with it. Remember when shit was scary because you never saw what was there most of the time but you knew it was there? Remember when somewhere was scary because the overall scenery and area was just unsettling and creepy to be in? Remember when you needed to think about how you could manage your supplies to survive til you found whatever items you were looking for in a generally unfriendly place where everything wanted to fuck up your shit? Thats the kind of stuff that makes those horror games fun, and its sadly what newer horror games always lack.

The only way I can see explaining this accurately is by using this simple comparison as an example, which is also the comparison thats always going through my mind when Im thinking about these things:

Its like comparing the classic horror movie, The Thing, to something like the new Resident Evil movies. The Thing (in this example, older horror games) has what anyone could want in a horror movie: a terrifying ass creature, a small cast of characters you can enjoy, tension and pacing, a great location and atmosphere, and enough action and beautiful effects/creature designs to please any horror fan. You feel so much more connected and entertained by this one because it feels like a more put together piece.

Then you have the Resident Evil movies (in this example, newer horror games), which has this: a lackluster plot bogged down with characters that have no real depth but appear to because they mention some "past events" with the occasional flashback, multiple bits of action scenes devoid of any pacing and seem to come right the hell out of nowhere, jumpscares every few minutes in order to startle viewers and gain "cheap scares", and flashy effects that look pretty but add nothing to the content.

So really, thats what my big problem with RE5 is. Its like a sign that horror is on a steep downslope to becoming absolute trash, and its just a massive disappointment for anyone who sees the horror genre as a personal favorite.

Kaizy wrote:

Ahkmill wrote:

RE5 isn't particularly generic, but that doesn't mean it's very good. It's fun to play with a friend, that's about it.

Its horribly generic, are you kidding me? RE5 took a swan dive into becoming every other shooting game ever created. Capcom lost their shit.

Generic would be shooting at people who are shooting at you. At least RE5 has zombies and a bit of variety with them. That's more than generic.

Ahkmill wrote:

Kaizy wrote:

Ahkmill wrote:

RE5 isn't particularly generic, but that doesn't mean it's very good. It's fun to play with a friend, that's about it.

Its horribly generic, are you kidding me? RE5 took a swan dive into becoming every other shooting game ever created. Capcom lost their shit.

Generic would be shooting at people who are shooting at you. At least RE5 has zombies and a bit of variety with them. That's more than generic.

1. Dont ever call those things from RE5 zombies, its an insult to actual zombie games

2. They do shoot you back, and the ones that dont throw sharp tools at you

Okay Kaizy, I can see where you're coming from there, as I went through a similar phase (and I do believe it's just that), but for me it happened much earlier and, admittedly, wasn't really as bad. I'd played REmake and the PS1 REs to death, and Code Veronica was a pretty good survival horror when I could be bothered to dust off my Dreamcast, but RE 0 and Outbreak just didn't fill the void for me (because they weren't really that good as games even if they did have some real survival horror elements in spades). And that was around the time I got into the likes of Silent Hill, Alone In The Dark (also on Dreamcast), Siren (talk about a frustrating experience when you're new at it, but damn scary and very engaging, which IMO is the way survival horror tends to be, equal parts fear and frustration). Most of what I played between the last RE games and RE 4 was some fantastic work that was still new, or new-ish (Silent Hill 1 mainly just to help me make sense of Silent Hill 3's story), and I found a lot of it in some ways to be better than RE, which I came to see as pretty cartoonish or at least high concept in comparison.

You basically called RE 5 a high concept action movie, which isn't exactly inaccurate, but it's the kind that's as well-executed as many of its peers, if not better. That's why it has such a strong fandom behind it, even among those who really do pine for some more cerebral, classic horror. And having played as much survival horror as I have, I have a hard time imagining how it could've been much different. They had to wrap that story up, send it in a new direction, and frankly the gameplay had to go in another direction as well. I share many of your criticisms. I think having the entire thing set in a brightly lit, high contrast setting was a gimmick just because "it had never been done before" in an RE game. I wouldn't have been totally against it, but they could've had some parts at night, or with overcast skies and rain, or in total darkness - oh right, they had parts with all those, but the parts that were also basically gimmicks (in a cave, on a boat, on the back of a truck with a turret gun). Far too many enemies have weapons, and the ones that don't aren't very threatening unless they transform which, go figure, they do far too much compared to RE 4.

I just don't utterly loath the game the way you and maybe a few other people do because, for me, what it does well outweighs all that. I already wanted something different, at least from RE, which I got with RE 4. I wanted to see something kinda like RE 4 but just on a newer system. And I wanted to see the whole fallout of the Chris, Jill and Wesker vendetta come to some conclusion like it had been building up to from Code Veronica. So I more or less got everything I wanted (not to mention a return of The Mercenaries mode), and probably don't want old school survival horror quite as bad as you do. But I know the feeling, and just accepted that it's probably never coming back, at least from Resident Evil.

I'd just like to point out, Resident Evil, despite having some pretty poorly received experimental spinoffs, has consistently earned pretty strong reviews as a series proper. A lot of those other series I've mentioned haven't, because they weren't as well made, and a lot of the changes made in sequels were seen as the blatant, cynical grabs for nostalgia or towards mainstream appeal that they were. I could probably do an entirely different post just about the painful attempts to make games like Silent Hill or Alone In The Dark "with it" in ways they shouldn't be and probably can't be, but for now I'll just mention the utterly disastrous rerelease of Silent Hills 2 & 3, which are inexcusably inferior to the originals both despite and because of being high-def.

Horror games were always a niche genre, until they weren't, basically like what happened with horror films. And the old fashioned horror films never truly died, but they did fall to the more obscure studios, to be attempted less frequently by the bigger ones, and the same has mostly been true of horror games. I think, though, Capcom is sort of feeling the need for a bit more classic horror in its flagship horror franchise, and they're testing the waters in their spin offs, the way they did a lot of the changes that would make their way into RE's 4 and 5. Operation Raccoon City has some of the most believable hordes of zombies I've ever seen in a game, and crimson heads even, mixed with a more critical infection mechanic than in Outbreak. Revelations is more atmospheric and has a bit of 1st person combat. They're clearly gearing up for something truly ambitious, and I don't think RE 6 is going to be that kind of game exactly, but it will, I predict, turn out to be the kind of game that makes a few of the innovations needed to wrap those other mechanics into a return to something truly horrific.

Because I sure as hell know Dead Space 2 wasn't it, Silent Hill Downpour wasn't it, and there probably won't be any more Fatal Frame, Condemned, Alone In The Dark, etc. Actually at this point I'm not sure anyone would give a fuck if another Silent Hill is ever made unless the movie's sequel is a smash success.

You basically did sum up most of my feelings on RE5, its good to see someone who gets where Im coming from. I didnt explore anything like RE:CV or the spinoffs, but from what I hear, I probably wouldnt want to, it may just add to my arsenal of things to bitch about disliking, which I dont need more of.

I'm not going to read these walls of text about a genre I don't really get into all that much, but I must say that judging by the first post, Kaizy's lack of apostrophe-mastery is incredibly disconcerting.

Kaizy, by tomorrow, I expect you to have read Sun Tzu's Art of Apostrophe.

greg-the-fox wrote:

Minecraft is a legitimate survival horror game
Discuss

I agree. There are moments in Minecraft where I feel legitimately scared. And they're not just jump scares, they are real, soul-crushing, heart-beating, spine-tingling, goosebumps-inducing, adrenaline-pumping fits of terror.

Even arbitrary noises, like the sound that plays at dawn while you're in a cave, speak of impending doom.

Riv wrote:

I'm not going to read these walls of text about a genre I don't really get into all that much, but I must say that judging by the first post, Kaizy's lack of apostrophe-mastery is incredibly disconcerting.

Kaizy, by tomorrow, I expect you to have read Sun Tzu's Art of Apostrophe.

Im aware I leave out apostrophes...Ive been doing it online forever, its a hard habit to break

Kaizy wrote:

Ahkmill wrote:

Kaizy wrote:

Ahkmill wrote:

RE5 isn't particularly generic, but that doesn't mean it's very good. It's fun to play with a friend, that's about it.

Its horribly generic, are you kidding me? RE5 took a swan dive into becoming every other shooting game ever created. Capcom lost their shit.

Generic would be shooting at people who are shooting at you. At least RE5 has zombies and a bit of variety with them. That's more than generic.

1. Dont ever call those things from RE5 zombies, its an insult to actual zombie games

2. They do shoot you back, and the ones that dont throw sharp tools at you

I think you're letting yourself get a bit out of hand. :V