Resident Evil 6?

Wolf-Bone wrote:

2) they actually did release "oldschool survival horror of glorious nostalgia Evil". I forget what this was called but it was essentially a port of RE 1 on Nintendo DS. Impressive in a way, but I don't think people wanted to play yet another version of RE 1.

Theyre using RE1 remakes as a crutch
Fans can ask, "We want classic RE styled games back" and Capcom will just point their fingers at the recent remake of RE1
Seriously, RE1 was a great game but holy fucking shit, stop releasing remakes in an attempt to quell the fans demand for a return to better gameplay

I know if they could release Outbreak with todays technology, the game would have some serious fucking success because those are the kinds of games that people can have fun playing with friends
If I wanted to run around and shoot everyone in sight with shitloads of weapons, Ill play CoD, not RE5 online

[quote="Kaizy"]

Wolf-Bone wrote:

I know if they could release Outbreak with todays technology, the game would have some serious fucking success because those are the kinds of games that people can have fun playing with friends
If I wanted to run around and shoot everyone in sight with shitloads of weapons, Ill play CoD, not RE5 online

Well Mercenaries mode has a sort of Tetris quality to it in that almost no one really "wins" but the frantic pace and challenge keep people playing - and that only increases with two players. Of course, where there's been an arcade-like minigame in practically every RE game since the first one if you count the Saturn version (Mercenaries proper going back to RE 3), there's no reason that couldn't be a main draw for a "new" style of survival horror while still retaining a single-player campaign that has an "old school" feel to it. I still think it's the kind of ground a smaller developer should cover, though. What RE will always be is the series where everything's somehow tied to Umbrella or its successors, former S.T.A.R.S members, BSAA, Raccoon City, etc. Games like Siren, Cold Fear, yeah, you have to look for those, but that's the point. It's for people looking for something like something else but just set in a different world with a different kind of take on the "horror", whether it be viral, cosmic, zombie, mutant, whatever.

the thing I don't get is how a game that has been epitomized due to the complexity of their puzzles, can literally strip that very thing away from itself, and still be called the same name. they might as well have made RE4 and 5 completely different titles. they could have easily gotten away with it.

I guess gamers just don't have the patience to run around a mansion solving puzzles anymore, it has to be "solve our impossible puzzle! find the ke-oh you found the key... puzzle solved!"

MiloTime wrote:

the thing I don't get is how a game that has been epitomized due to the complexity of their puzzles, can literally strip that very thing away from itself, and still be called the same name. they might as well have made RE4 and 5 completely different titles. they could have easily gotten away with it.

I guess gamers just don't have the patience to run around a mansion solving puzzles anymore, it has to be "solve our impossible puzzle! find the ke-oh you found the key... puzzle solved!"

The puzzles were, frankly, arbitrary and obtuse. And they weren't really what defined the experience as much as those things, as well as other aspects of the gameplay just expanding on games like Alone In The Dark and point-and-click games, which btw were often mystery games. RE was really all about solving and, hopefully, concluding a horrific scenario rooted in a mystery - who are Umbrella, where do these viruses really come from, what really are the goals and motives of the villains like Birkin and Wesker, where's it going to go from here, etc. Honestly, I don't know why a game like Code Veronica gets treated as a "spin off" and something that really does branch off into a whole new story arc like RE 4 gets to be the canon sequel, but the truth is, these guys probably only have half a clue at best what they're doing when it comes to storytelling. I think we need to take into consideration that games are a new art, and an art heavily dependent on people who are really more technician than playwright. That gap has yet to really be bridged yet.

MiloTime wrote:

the thing I don't get is how a game that has been epitomized due to the complexity of their puzzles, can literally strip that very thing away from itself, and still be called the same name. they might as well have made RE4 and 5 completely different titles. they could have easily gotten away with it.

I guess gamers just don't have the patience to run around a mansion solving puzzles anymore, it has to be "solve our impossible puzzle! find the ke-oh you found the key... puzzle solved!"

Resident Evil 4 was slated to be a reboot- because it was on a new system and the protagonist faced a new threat.
It is going to happen with RE6 just like they said. It's no longer some old guy with an affinity for art in a jacked up Coloradan city placing statues. They're not solving a mystery down in a lab and trying to figure out what is going on. They already know what is going down, and they're on the offensive.
The evolution of Resident Evil from Survival Horror to Survival Action was inevitable. How many more times could they find a way to place strange, obscure puzzles in a bizzarchitecture setting?

Plus, it's an entirely new kind of survival. It's survival against heavily weaponized B.O.Ws and terrorists cells in the middle of a goddamn warzone. That's surviving- right?

I mean... Resident Evil 1, 2, 3 and outbreak involved barely armed people locked in a strange world.
Now it's the opposite. Chris is a soldier in a UN-backed anti-terrorist group. Leon is a special service agent. They're no longer citizens not officers- they're soldiers.

I want to point out that there is a woman in a red dress in the trailer, seen in the background of this still.
Gee- which pale woman do we know has a ponytail and likes to wear red dresses?

Pliio wrote:

Resident Evil 4 was slated to be a reboot- because it was on a new system and the protagonist faced a new threat.
It is going to happen with RE6 just like they said. It's no longer some old guy with an affinity for art in a jacked up Coloradan city placing statues. They're not solving a mystery down in a lab and trying to figure out what is going on. They already know what is going down, and they're on the offensive.
The evolution of Resident Evil from Survival Horror to Survival Action was inevitable. How many more times could they find a way to place strange, obscure puzzles in a bizzarchitecture setting?

Plus, it's an entirely new kind of survival. It's survival against heavily weaponized B.O.Ws and terrorists cells in the middle of a goddamn warzone. That's surviving- right?

I mean... Resident Evil 1, 2, 3 and outbreak involved barely armed people locked in a strange world.
Now it's the opposite. Chris is a soldier in a UN-backed anti-terrorist group. Leon is a special service agent. They're no longer citizens not officers- they're soldiers.

that all makes sense.

but the point I'm hearing from everybody is basically this:

"fuck our fans. we're going to try and please the bigger audience"

now I'm not saying they don't care about the fans. I'm saying why is it that just because the wider audience that happens to love fast paced action get what they want, but the fans are stuck wondering if they'll ever be catered to?

I'm enjoying the new RE games. but am I really hearing that NOTHING fans used to love about the old games is worth going back to?... NOTHING?

MiloTime wrote:

I'm enjoying the new RE games. but am I really hearing that NOTHING fans used to love about the old games is worth going back to?... NOTHING?

There isn't really anything they can do about it. If they go back to the old formula, people will complain about unoriginality. If they continue with what they're doing, people will complain about how They Changed it, Now it Sucks.

No ones saying go back to the old formula, but at least make the games feel like an RE game
They feel like CoD in third person now, Im not even fucking joking

here's my two cents:

there are still games out there that use old school style gameplay. I can't think of a whole lot, but yea... like rayman. they still use the classic 2D sidescrolling formula, and their last game apparently did REALLY well.

indie titles are literally well known for their classic/old school styles that are usually implemented.

so I think it's possible that RE could do the same and still sell well... I think it can happen... it just won't though.

I keep thinking of ways they could go back to the old style, and I can imagine it looking really good... :<

Wolf-Bone wrote:

Southpaw wrote:

Also didn't you tell me not to talk to you?

If I knew you were gonna take it seriously I would've demanded a blowjob while I was at it or something

This made my day

Resident Evil is a dying game. It was fun while it lasted.

Quote :

"Resident Evil 6 also marks the return of zombies to the main series, but now they can run, jump, and even wield weapons."

Quote :

but now they can run, jump, and even wield weapons."

Quote :

they can run, jump, and even wield weapons."

Quote :

wield weapons."

FUCK YOU CAPCOM
IM OUT

Fluttershy wrote:

Quote :

"Resident Evil 6 also marks the return of zombies to the main series, but now they can run, jump, and even wield weapons."

Quote :

but now they can run, jump, and even wield weapons."

Quote :

they can run, jump, and even wield weapons."

Quote :

wield weapons."

FUCK YOU CAPCOM
IM OUT

Depends on what weapons. M16s, M9s, shotguns, and the like. Then im pissed. Lead pipes, cricket bats, shovels and bits of wood. Okay I can see that, more challenge with out being ridiculous.

No
This isnt about challenge
Its about the zombies

Zombies are supposed to be the living dead, eat people and infect them. THATS IT.
In the RE series theyre also slow due to obvious facts and they like to travel in hordes
The running and jumping I could PROBABLY overlook
The weapons, FUCK NO
The ONLY weapons they have are their ability to bite/scratch/eat people, and the advantage to overrun people in hordes
THE MINUTE you give one enough intelligence to hold and utilize any weaponry, be it an advanced gun, or a fucking snowball, THEYRE DRIFTING BACK INTO THE PLAGAS
If they have enough knowledge to utilize weaponry of any caliber then there is nearly no difference between them and the Uroboros/Plagas
Capcom took their one shot at redemption and fucked it up before the game is even near release

I am legit fucking pissed about this
Fuck Capcom
Fuck these new RE games
Fuck their bullshit
RE is now no better than CoD

Fluttershy wrote:

No
This isnt about challenge
Its about the zombies

Zombies are supposed to be the living dead, eat people and infect them. THATS IT.
In the RE series theyre also slow due to obvious facts and they like to travel in hordes
The running and jumping I could PROBABLY overlook
The weapons, FUCK NO
The ONLY weapons they have are their ability to bite/scratch/eat people, and the advantage to overrun people in hordes
THE MINUTE you give one enough intelligence to hold and utilize any weaponry, be it an advanced gun, or a fucking snowball, THEYRE DRIFTING BACK INTO THE PLAGAS
If they have enough knowledge to utilize weaponry of any caliber then there is nearly no difference between them and the Uroboros/Plagas
Capcom took their one shot at redemption and fucked it up before the game is even near release

I am legit fucking pissed about this
Fuck Capcom
Fuck these new RE games
Fuck their bullshit
RE is now no better than CoD

Trust me, no one else agrees with you more on how zombies should move and do their whole attack pattern of "hey, let's just throw as many as possible at them til we win, working in WWII." But the zombies using melee weapons, it makes some sense. Their main attack is swinging and scratching, all that they need to do then is grip. It makes even more sense when you look to zombie movies like Dawn of the Dead. The reasons zombies buttfuckedd the malls is because of routine. Baseball players, construction workers, and cops would probably retain the memory pattern of swinging a bat, using a sledge hammer, and a night stick. Even though the brain is pretty much destroyed by deterioration. Guns though, that's a hell no, that takes aiming, maintaining, reloading all of which are more complex than swinging.

I just...I cant see it
Anytime I think of a zombie like creature using/flinging weapons, all I can think of is Plagas and Uroboros...it fucking ruins the experience for me

Fluttershy wrote:

I just...I cant see it
Anytime I think of a zombie like creature using/flinging weapons, all I can think of is Plagas and Uroboros...it fucking ruins the experience for me

I hated the plagas because of how they used weapons. They had an unlimited amount of weapons that they threw like Randy Johnson. When a zombie swings say, a 2x4 bit of wood, if they hit or miss they need to stay shambling and spend a couple seconds trying to recover. Say for smaller weapons and a quicker swing, that could in turn cause them to fall because said zombie has no goddamned motor skills. If they throw something, which wouldn't make a good enemy because they'd launch that mother fucker like a retard launches a puppy that bit it. In other words, no accuracy. Actually, in a horde, I can see a couple of those being a good foe in the sense they take pot shots while you fight the other zombies and in the event they get a hit, it'd be a stun and annoying.

...why the hell cant they just linger towards you in a massive group and bite your face off?
What ever happened to simple things like that

Fluttershy wrote:

...why the hell cant they just linger towards you in a massive group and bite your face off?
What ever happened to simple things like that

I like hordes, but the idea of a foe who is one step below retarded swinging around garden implements. It adds some more kick. I still like the idea of a bunch of enemies in groups roving around, and the idea of a far more intelligent enemy sneaking around following you myself. The fear of that combined with sparatic hordes of death with some stronger enemies in it is tantalizing.

Fluttershy wrote:

No
This isnt about challenge
Its about the zombies

Zombies are supposed to be the living dead, eat people and infect them. THATS IT.
In the RE series theyre also slow due to obvious facts and they like to travel in hordes
The running and jumping I could PROBABLY overlook
The weapons, FUCK NO
The ONLY weapons they have are their ability to bite/scratch/eat people, and the advantage to overrun people in hordes
THE MINUTE you give one enough intelligence to hold and utilize any weaponry, be it an advanced gun, or a fucking snowball, THEYRE DRIFTING BACK INTO THE PLAGAS
If they have enough knowledge to utilize weaponry of any caliber then there is nearly no difference between them and the Uroboros/Plagas
Capcom took their one shot at redemption and fucked it up before the game is even near release

I am legit fucking pissed about this
Fuck Capcom
Fuck these new RE games
Fuck their bullshit
RE is now no better than CoD

the crimson heads were able to run after you. but at least they made it seem reasonable. nothing like black guys sprinting after you with machete's... that's terrifying... but in a completely different sense. not in the zombie sense, but in the "holy shit, there's a black guy running after me with a machete" sense.

I think they're too focused on making enemies more challenging, rather than sticking to the slow paced walking zombies. and even in that case, I agree that you could simply make up for it by putting them in hordes... hell, that would be even MORE challenging. forcing you to use strategy instead of popping heads off. I mean you send a horde after you, you can only shoot so many of them before you run out of ammo. with the last RE games, sure they ran after you, but there were only like, 5 or 6 after you at a time, and all you had to do was shoot them in the leg and kick them in the face.

so basically my point is, what would be more terrifying:

2 or 3 dude's running after you, or

a horde of zombies blocking your way, knowing you won't be able to kill all of them.

MiloTime wrote:

the crimson heads were able to run after you. but at least they made it seem reasonable. nothing like black guys sprinting after you with machete's... that's terrifying... but in a completely different sense. not in the zombie sense, but in the "holy shit, there's a black guy running after me with a machete" sense.

I think they're too focused on making enemies more challenging, rather than sticking to the slow paced walking zombies. and even in that case, I agree that you could simply make up for it by putting them in hordes... hell, that would be even MORE challenging. forcing you to use strategy instead of popping heads off. I mean you send a horde after you, you can only shoot so many of them before you run out of ammo. with the last RE games, sure they ran after you, but there were only like, 5 or 6 after you at a time, and all you had to do was shoot them in the leg and kick them in the face.

so basically my point is, what would be more terrifying:

2 or 3 dude's running after you, or

a horde of zombies blocking your way, knowing you won't be able to kill all of them.

I think the issue is also a technical one. AI is cheap. When your starting point is a zombie, you can make an enemy a little smarter without a significant increase in processing overhead. But gamers today expect KILLER FUCKING GRAPHICS OMG. Even I'm guilty of maxing out my graphics as high as it will go with a playable framerate. Then we get into the problem of polycount limits. A given graphics chip can only render so many polys in a scene at one time. When every zombie and scenery object has to look photorealistic, you run out of computing power pretty damn fast. So, in order to balance available threads with game challenge, while saying "Fuck balance," with regards to graphics, you have to make each enemy smarter.

Derpfocks wrote:

MiloTime wrote:

the crimson heads were able to run after you. but at least they made it seem reasonable. nothing like black guys sprinting after you with machete's... that's terrifying... but in a completely different sense. not in the zombie sense, but in the "holy shit, there's a black guy running after me with a machete" sense.

I think they're too focused on making enemies more challenging, rather than sticking to the slow paced walking zombies. and even in that case, I agree that you could simply make up for it by putting them in hordes... hell, that would be even MORE challenging. forcing you to use strategy instead of popping heads off. I mean you send a horde after you, you can only shoot so many of them before you run out of ammo. with the last RE games, sure they ran after you, but there were only like, 5 or 6 after you at a time, and all you had to do was shoot them in the leg and kick them in the face.

so basically my point is, what would be more terrifying:

2 or 3 dude's running after you, or

a horde of zombies blocking your way, knowing you won't be able to kill all of them.

I think the issue is also a technical one. AI is cheap. When your starting point is a zombie, you can make an enemy a little smarter without a significant increase in processing overhead. But gamers today expect KILLER FUCKING GRAPHICS OMG. Even I'm guilty of maxing out my graphics as high as it will go with a playable framerate. Then we get into the problem of polycount limits. A given graphics chip can only render so many polys in a scene at one time. When every zombie and scenery object has to look photorealistic, you run out of computing power pretty damn fast. So, in order to balance available threads with game challenge, while saying "Fuck balance," with regards to graphics, you have to make each enemy smarter.

this is where I feel a bit stupid, but I've noticed a few PC games here and there able to perform ably with plenty of things on screen at once. assassins creed for example plays pretty well on PC alone, and they allow 100 NPC's on-screen at once. (and ACIII actually just announced they're pulling off just over 1,000 NPC's on-screen)

Its not that theyre making the enemies harder
Its the fact that they keep trying to pull this "SO MUCH ACTION" bullshit in a series that was based on surviving and horror, slowpaced gameplay, and creepy environments
Their transition into this new generation of over the top "shoot every fucking thing in sight" games is a fucking slap to the consumer and a slap to me as a dedicated fan
All the games these days are becoming Call of Duty: run here, shoot that, occasionally solve this problem, insert bland story bits here, shoot more, blah fucking blah

I read articles on RE6 and thought, "Wow...maybe theyre actually trying to redeem themselves for RE5, maybe theyre going to go back to building atmosphere and creating some good scary survival horror games again"
I gave them the benefit of the doubt and of course, that was the second dumbest thing Ive done since I first started playing the RE games, the first thing being my purchase of RE5
The fact that theyre giving ZOMBIES weapons now is like taking my childhood and assfucking it right in front of me
Theyre taking something that was completely fine and awesome as it was and sticking more of their RE5 garbage all over it, its like a fucking infection, starting from the host (RE5) which in turn infects everything else, and Im so sick of it

Im not buying a single new RE game that comes out until this bullshit crap they keep pulling stops
I refuse to buy RE: Revelations if I ever get a 3DS
I refuse to buy RE: Operation Raccoon City because its the dumbest shit Ive ever seen
And I refuse to buy RE6 whenever its released

RE is dead to me

I'd just like to point out that the first of the zombies to appear in the original Night of The Living Dead knew enough to pick up a rock and try to smash a windshield with it to get to his would be victim. They also were afraid of fire. The zombies in Romero's series have progressively become more sophisticated without ever truly becoming sentient, and it's always been debated if the zombies are even conscious. But by Day of The Dead, at least some could use guns.

The idea of zombies that are definitively unthinking, unfeeling, completely unaware, dead in every sense of the word, whose utter existence can only be explained by something having gone horribly wrong in the fabric of reality itself is a relatively new concept. George Romero can be credited with starting it, but even he was just deriving his creatures from earlier works like Omega Man (also known as I Am Legend, AKA essentially the original modern zombie apocalypse except they were vampires) and the mythic ghouls (which Romero's "zombies" were originally intended to be). The whole psychological horror angle to the zombie phenomenon, while indeed existing for its own sake to a degree, was really more to aid the kind of story Romero was trying to tell about human nature.

Resident Evil, from day one, has never been about anything of the sort. I'm not saying the series' creators don't aspire to achieve great things, but they come from a different culture and frankly face an entirely different set of challenges when they set out to make games. First and foremost is, uh, making a game, and the story is an afterthought. That's because it's not like an older medium like books or movies where most of the hurdles have been overcome and the conventions established. When a zombie apocalypse is being written for any other medium, a good enough creator already knows a lot of what needs to be done for it to work, and it's most likely a zombie apocalypse for reasons other than just "zombies are scary". Resident evil has pretty much only ever had zombies, or giant mutants, or possessed villagers, or whatever else it has because it's scary or at least intimidating. Resident Evil is only about scary creatures and intense action for the sake of making a scary, tense game.

Maybe it is the case that the former has been sacrificed for the latter, or maybe it's that the people charged with the task and trusted with a lot of someone else's money to make something that will sell listened to several years and sequels worth of self-identifying fans saying what they were doing was getting repetitive and self-derivative. The original game in the series was as much science fiction as horror, and to at least pass for something that could belong in the same world, it had to at least continue with Umbrella or a successor to it being the main enemy. The main threat always has to be some kind of science experiment gone horrible wrong (or horribly right), and frankly, there's more room for growth with what they started with and what it turned into than if they'd set out to make Night of The Living Dead: The Game.

Which is something I'd love to see, but I never really took Resident Evil for that and never thought it could be that, realistically. People that complain about series like Silent Hill or Alone In The Dark becoming too action oriented, too gimmicky or whatnot at the expense of atmosphere, I think have a somewhat more legit beef because those were always more steeped in classic horror tropes. Resident Evil just kinda aped them (and even earlier games in the genre) for the sake of doing what Capcom has always tried to do, which is refine other games' ideas, put sexier characters into them, and then refine those games and make the characters even sexier until people aren't responding to them as well.

TL;DR I think you have a fair point if it's that there needs to be something like Resident Evil, but more oldschool zombie apocalypse. I don't think it's really fair to say Resident Evil's dropped the ball for not being that kind of game, especially this long into the series.